New, More Detailed, Employee Compensation Report
HATCH ANNOUNCES NEW REPORT
Today, in a Press Release from Interim Communication Director Bill Lobdell, City CEO Tom Hatch introduced the new, improved municipal employee compensation report, which is described in the title of the press release as "one of the most detailed municipal employee compensation reports in the U.S." You can read the report HERE. It will also be linked on the City website for your future reference.
PRESS RELEASE TEXT
The press release reads as follow:
In keeping with its pledge of transparency, the City of Costa Mesa today published one of the most extensive municipal employee compensation reports in the United States.
The 27 page report details the total compensation of 752 full-and part-time City employees - including Costa Mesa's five council members. the employee's pay and benefits are broken down into 14 categories, including base pay, overtime pay, specialty pay, certification pay, leave payouts, health benefits, and City pension contributions.
The document also provides definitions for each category of pay and pension contribution, bringing additional transparency to the report.
The City undertook the revisions after receiving input from residents and staff on how to improve the original report, which was published on the city's website in 2010.
"I'm pleased that Costa Mesa has become a leader in providing detailed, easy-to-understand public information to the community," said City Chief Executive Officer Tom Hatch. "This employee compensation report can serve as a model for other cities to follow. It's not the easiest trail to blaze given the sensitivity over individual salaries and benefits, but it was the right thing to do for the public."
WHY?
I guess I'm OK with the City providing this information, but as an old Human Resources professional, it bothers me that the confidentiality of employee compensation has been so dramatically violated. I fear that, instead of answering questions a few members of the public might have had, the dissemination of this amount of detail will only generate more questions and criticisms, most of which will be "I don't make that kind of money, why should they?" Envy and greed will almost certainly dominate the comment threads that this information generates. We'll see.
PANDERING TO THE PARTY
One thing is certain, the publication of this information (again), and the detail provided, will continue to play into the hands of those in our city who feel the employees are
greedy and that their compensation and benefits are the root of all evil in this town. Those people - Jim Righeimer, Steve Mensinger and their sycophant, Colin McCarthy and his Costa Mesa Taxpayer's Association - will continue to use these numbers - or, rather, segments of these exhibits - to fan the flames of discontent. One byproduct of that action will be the praise of Scott Baugh, John Moorlach and the rest of the OC GOP hierarchy who are trying to use our city as a petri dish for pension reform.
Today, in a Press Release from Interim Communication Director Bill Lobdell, City CEO Tom Hatch introduced the new, improved municipal employee compensation report, which is described in the title of the press release as "one of the most detailed municipal employee compensation reports in the U.S." You can read the report HERE. It will also be linked on the City website for your future reference.
PRESS RELEASE TEXT
The press release reads as follow:
In keeping with its pledge of transparency, the City of Costa Mesa today published one of the most extensive municipal employee compensation reports in the United States.
The 27 page report details the total compensation of 752 full-and part-time City employees - including Costa Mesa's five council members. the employee's pay and benefits are broken down into 14 categories, including base pay, overtime pay, specialty pay, certification pay, leave payouts, health benefits, and City pension contributions.
The document also provides definitions for each category of pay and pension contribution, bringing additional transparency to the report.
The City undertook the revisions after receiving input from residents and staff on how to improve the original report, which was published on the city's website in 2010.
"I'm pleased that Costa Mesa has become a leader in providing detailed, easy-to-understand public information to the community," said City Chief Executive Officer Tom Hatch. "This employee compensation report can serve as a model for other cities to follow. It's not the easiest trail to blaze given the sensitivity over individual salaries and benefits, but it was the right thing to do for the public."
WHY?
I guess I'm OK with the City providing this information, but as an old Human Resources professional, it bothers me that the confidentiality of employee compensation has been so dramatically violated. I fear that, instead of answering questions a few members of the public might have had, the dissemination of this amount of detail will only generate more questions and criticisms, most of which will be "I don't make that kind of money, why should they?" Envy and greed will almost certainly dominate the comment threads that this information generates. We'll see.
PANDERING TO THE PARTY
One thing is certain, the publication of this information (again), and the detail provided, will continue to play into the hands of those in our city who feel the employees are
greedy and that their compensation and benefits are the root of all evil in this town. Those people - Jim Righeimer, Steve Mensinger and their sycophant, Colin McCarthy and his Costa Mesa Taxpayer's Association - will continue to use these numbers - or, rather, segments of these exhibits - to fan the flames of discontent. One byproduct of that action will be the praise of Scott Baugh, John Moorlach and the rest of the OC GOP hierarchy who are trying to use our city as a petri dish for pension reform.
Labels: Bill Lobdell, Colin McCarthy, Costa Mesa Taxpayers Association, Employee Compensation, John Moorlach, Scott Baugh, Tom Hatch
posted by The Pot Stirrer at 8/09/2011 02:04:00 PM
69 Comments:
great job tommy! he continues to amaze.
Maybe I missed it but I don't think it is mentioned that they are putting employees who no longer work there in this repot. They make it look like they have this huge work force when that is not the case and hasn't been for a year or so now. I hope that the employees don't get unnecessary attention or harassment due to this being put out. This seems like it is going too far.
Bravo Mr. Hatch!!!!!!!!!!
Envy and greed will almost certainly dominate the comment threads that this information generates.
Bingo!
Yeah, I'm not down with this, I wouldn't want my salary shown in public (even though I earn less then a police officer). People's salaries are private, this is a tacky move on the council's part, but I don't expect class from them.
You ask for transparancy. You get what you ask for and then cry invasion of privacy. I would rather you just say "Thank you Mr. Hatch," and you went on your way.
GW:
"..the OC GOP hierarchy who are trying to use our city as a petri dish for pension reform."
Me:
I think THIS is the best way to deal with destructive tea baggers like Riggy, Menssy, and their jager:
http://news.yahoo.com/6-republican-senators-face-recall-wisconsin-192400681.html
transparency at it's finest. you asked for it, you demanded to know where the money went. hint: fire and police, no wonder they try to buy council members elections.. thanks to the OCGOP this will not happen here.
envyandgreed - so for putting their lives on the line, they don't deserve that pay ?
I don't mind a median salaray posting of the various job postions, but individual salaries of distinct people is not cool, in my prospective. What's to gain if person A is shown to earn a little more then person B ? Nothing but resent between A and B and possible HR problems.
As a CMPD Police Officer, I don't mind this list. At least it's not misleading compared to the last list. As you can see, the average officer makes about 100K before taxes. Considering what we do and what I have done to get this job, I'm not at all embarrassed. Compare this to other cities and you will see that this is middle of the road. The cost of living is very high in So Cal and that is far from rich.
What is embarrassing is that our council is getting 30K for working a part-time job. There are over 200 city employees (including part-time reserve officers) that make less. Mensinger gets 18K for health benifits, that's almost 3x what a cop gets. Not bad for a non-elected part-timer who has been with the city for 6 months!
As a testament to their pledge of transparency I'm calling on all members of the city council to publish their tax returns so the public can see what type of incomes our elected(and appointed)bring home. And how many of our "overpaid" city employees live on the golf course in mesa verde? And no employee should be embarrassed by their income, they worked for it, they deserve it.
Mark my words… Soon you will be hearing about the "ridiculous amount of money" cops are making in over-time…Officers are leaving CMPD in droves and it's only getting worse. We are so short cops that we are regularly being forced to work over-time. I'm so busy during my shift running from call to call that i have to wait until the end of my shift to catch up on paper work.
I bust my A$$ every day on patrol. I deal with diseased intoxicated transients daily and have the very realistic chance of being killed or killing another. I now have days I don't get to see my family due to forced over-time. All this and then some so a failed real estate manager with time to coach football and work as a council member can tell me I'm over paid.
And another thing....Will we ever be provided with a list of names, positions and compensation for all the consultants, contractors and interim managers and anyone else feeding on the councils outsourcing gravy train.
CMPD "Union Thug":
"..All this and then some so a failed real estate manager with time to coach football and work as a council member can tell me I'm over paid."
And then SMIRK at everyone from the dais while CMPD is LITERALLY watching his back! The epitome of hypocrisy!
Those of us who have lived in CM for many years and raised children here know who the real thugs are.
Another blogger wrote this "What is embarrassing is that our council is getting 30K for working a part-time job. There are over 200 city employees (including part-time reserve officers) that make less. Mensinger gets 18K for health insurance pay-off, that's almost 3x what a cop gets. Not bad for a non-elected part-timer who has been with the city for 6 months!" This is the real news from this report. The employees' work for their salaries; however, the city council work hours a month. The entire city is well aware Monahan is only mayor for the heath insurance he can provide for his brood of children. (Since he fails to provide health insurance at his own company- ahem, booze joint. Yes, lets have the taxpayers pay for his kids.)... Hmmmm. thanks now I can share what our City Council members get paid while I work a 40 hour week. Good JOB Brown Nose Tom.. Good Job!!
A local business, that pays $200 dollars a year to the Banana Republic of Costa Mesa just got a $1.2 Billion (w/ a "B") cash infusion for property aquisitions.......but we aren't supposed to have nice things, and our employees are outrageously overpaid.
Which has absolutely no basis in fact and are just a narrative our tax dollars now are spent to promote.
What a bunch of BS.
Pot Stirrer, this is a good thing. This is a trend across the country. Public employee compensation should be just that - public.
CMPD Union Thug: The average Costa Mesan knows about and appreciates the job you do - that is a fact. Please remember that when all of the other argumenting is going on.
You're an HR "Professional"? That explains a lot. After 35 years climbing the long corporate ladder, I can tell you from long experience that HR is the most complete waste of money and flesh in ANY corporate infrastructure. Absolutely worthless internal service.
The rest of you can get over it -- it's public information.
CMPD "Union Thug"
First I don't think you're a thug. Most cops are good hard working people and are highly respected and appreciated. I sure as hell do. The problem I see is you are focusing on the Actual Base Pay column. Nobody would have a problem with those figures. When you look at the Total Compensation column, that is where the problems arise. The first 76 names on this spreadsheet are employees making $200,000 or more per year total compensation. Most of those are cops and many others are firemen. It is this figure that is getting very difficult for the city to sustain.
As an employee, I don't mind the numbers, or job titles...
but putting people's names is a total invasion of privacy.
As a police employee we deal with people on parole, probation, and crazies. It is bad enough that we always have to watch our back while working, but this just adds to it.
Some of the employees just want to do their job and go home at the end of the day. Don't we just at least deserve that.
Transparancy??!!! I THINK NOT. It disgust me to see the council and their whipping boy Hatch repost a misleading "attack-driven" compansation report.
Like PD, the fire department is running dangerously short. After last years CUT OF A PARAMEDIC FIRE ENGINE AND 12 PERSONNEL, WE ARE STILL RUNNING A DEPARTMENT WITH 15% "OPEN POSITIONS/ VACANCIES" AND OVER 50% VACANT MANAGEMENT POSITIONS OF A YEAR AGO. (IE- CMFD is still running the nearly 10,000 calls a year with 25% less personel) Not to mention having to do some of the Fire Prevention work AND now EMS training, since that staff was reduced. Creating forced Overtime (MISLEADING AND INFLATING THE NUMBERS BY HATCH'S AND THE COUNCIL'S DESIGN). Hatch and Council have been asked REPEATEDLY to fill those OPEN POSITIONS but he refuses. So how about telling the whole truth.
AND IN FACT- Oh- mighty bald-headed one (Rigslime), how about you and the gun toting football coach show your REAL NUMBERS. Show us just how two people with multiple failed businesses ( one living off his wife & one that can't even pay his education bills) can afford to live in almost $800k - $1 million homes on the golf course with "documented" salaries of about $1000 a month from planning commissions/ council jobs over the last several years. Oh, and drive a $70,000 ESCALADE.
One way might be a little something UNDER THE TABLE? How about showing the public your tax returns and let the public decide.
This council is an embarrassment. They (minus Wendy) are ego driven, vindictive, grand standing, sorry excuse for human beings. GUESS FOUNTAIN VALLEY RESIDENCE WHERE THE LUCKY ONES WHEN THEY DID NOT VOTE FOR RIGHEIMER--- TWICE !!!!!
Cranberry, your bitterness tells me that you probably didn't climb that ladder hard enough. My first job after the military during the Viet Nam era took me from LA to Santa Ana, Hartford, Houston, Hartford and San Francisco - in just over 7 years. We came "home" to So. Cal. and I worked for 6 years at one of the finest medical instrument companies in the country, then was the employment manager for the fastest growing company in So. Cal. before starting a consulting practice that I ran successfully for more than 20 years before retiring. It just takes hard work, not looking for someone to blame for your failure.
I am appalled that individuals names were used. Public/private sectors - there is no difference, those are private records. They could list all the titles they wanted, but this is inexcusable.
In the private sector an employee can be fired for sharing this information with a co-worker, yet our city puts this out on the Internet, where this is now global information!
So, the disdain for the people who work so hard to maintain this city and serve its people is complete. And the drivers of the hate keep their records private and skip town for the month. Classy.
Tom Hatch is a disgusting human being. He is also a "public employee" who gets his fat paycheck courtesy of the tax payer while he spends his days as a yes man whipping boy for the bullies on the council. Has he no problem collecting his benefits and fat pension contribution. It is funny how this latest report still has him listed as the ACM and Alan Roeder as the City Manager. You would think in the spirit of transparency he would at least report his salary accurately.
Not Surprised,
Your wrong across the board. Hatch is a fine fella, but trapped in a tough situation.
And, in case you're at all concerned about accuracy, this report is for the year ending 12/31/2010! On that date Hatch was, indeed, Assistant City Manager. Please pay attention.
Cops and Firefighters are the finest persons in any community. Our city has had the best PD in the county through the efforts of three police chiefs. From 1953 through 2003, their efforts produced the best of the best. I was hired under chief Roger Neth and worked on through chief Dave Snowden. During the years I worked for chief Snowden (about 17 years) only three cops left for other agencies. One returned and is now a sergeant. One tried to return and was not accepted back and one retired from the agency he migrated to.
Now lets look at today. Cops are leaving in droves, the reputation of the city sucks and the city council (except Wendy) sucks even worse. OUR cops (yeah, I still live here even in retirement) have left to work in Irvine, Newport Beach, and Anaheim. Five (5) officers followed our old chief to Beverly Hills, oh yeah, and one range master. Two more are testing there now, maybe more for all I know. At least he appreciates the best when he sees them.
Our city should be ashamed. Losing the very people these chiefs and Allan Roeder worked so hard to hire and train because of the ego based lack of concern of our council (except Wendy).
There are many very fine cops left in Costa Mesa but for how long. They and Firefighters too, deserve every dime they make. While you sleep, they are vigilant so you can. While you and your children play, they are vigilant so you can. While you work, your homes and families are safe because they care.
While our service men and women are deployed over seas, their families left behind are safe because they care.
I only wish I was still in uniform so I could again serve with these fine men and women before they all leave for a community and a city council that appreciates them.
Publishing salary info is public record. Publishing names is insanity.
You can remember all you want. Who was Arnold Broyles and give some details. Otherwise you just sound like a quack who hates cops.
semiColin... like this?
I know this looks a bit daunting, but just cut and paste to the address bar...
http://www.sdcta.org/Uploads/Documents/San%20Diego%20Agencies%20Pension%20100k%20Club,%20For%20website,%20by%20Agency_0.pdf
Also, the crucst of this issue is not necessarily the amount paid to risk their lives on duty; it’s that they will be paid the same amount to sit in front of a monitor and blog about Geoff West’s (thinning) white hair… I guess that could be dangerous. All of this until he/she dies. Then there spouse will receive what, 50% until they die. Great job if you could get it, until now.
Note to Host: An idiot servant (not be confused with savant) is a derogatory term for a person with significant mental impairment who is exceptionally gifted in one area... being an idiot politician)
If the city really wanted to be transparent it would also list the many injuries suffered by city employees (mainly police/fire) while they were working and how it effected those officers' daily life functions. This way we could determine if these employees (cops) are really being underpaid for what happens to them while working and if we should actually at least give them the same medical benefits awarded to the city council.
For example- an officer gets seriously cut while fighting off a transient trying to steal a police car. What private sector employee has had that happen to them recently?
An officer gets punched in the face causing a brain injury and the end of a career. I guess if you are an MMA fighter or chest bumping council member this could be normal right?
An officer (okay multiple officers) are injured when members of the public are careless and crash into motor officers. (I won't even get into the injuries that result from motorcycle training because that is its own nightmare) Anyone else lucky enough to try to get proper healthcare when hurt at work, did it end your career too, did you actually not get treatment at all and have to just live with the pain like that is okay?
How many officers have been seriously injured by DUI drivers, like those leaving triangle square or the esteemed mayor's joint?
An officer(s) gets run over/smashed/crushed by a felon attempting to flee in a car. Does everyone agree that hurts more than a paper cut or accidental staple to the pinky and takes a little longer to heal although I am sure Bever has many paper cuts and probably needs a protective salve?
An officer is cut by glass attempting to apprehend a felon who is also bleeding resulting in a pathogen exposure and an AIDS/HEP scare. Who else other than a porn star has had to tell their significant other- hey sweetie guess what happened at work today? I may have contracted AIDS but don't worry I won't know for sure for 6 months, what's for dinner?
The same could be said for a number of officers who have been pricked by uncapped needles that the druggies being searched forgot to mention. Now there is a real HIV scare.
We can talk about the mental harm done to police officers at a later date. BTW these are all incidents that occurred at CMPD within 3 years but it is not all the injuries that have occurred, just a very small sample. But yup, they are totally overpaid. (sarcasm for those of you who are blockheads)
Publishing salary info is public record. Publishing names is insanity. Tom Hatch, please fight more for the employees'. I know you are in a hard place; however, exhibit leadership skills against the city council. Events like these create chaos and creating stress citywide. Stress, bullying and leaking of personnel records is not only illegal but unethical as well.
These numbers should shock and outrage most residents, and they will, just wait. The fact that everyone's base pay doubles after all of the little perks and joke benefits is appalling. The economy is going into a further recession. Want even more anger, read the Police, Fire and Employee MOU's (union agreements) It's like Bell all over again. 11 weeks of vacation if you've worked here 30 years--yes, 11 weeks!! Hopefully, outsourcing will solve a lot of this problem and finally put some of OUR tax money into OUR City and not see it run off to South County every night!
Just read the blog from Proud & Retired and I am proud to have served with you and the many other fine men and women at CMPD (and CMFD) during my tenure there. I wish I knew who you are. I have a couple of ideas, but will keep them to myself. At any rate I appreciate your comments and I am sure Chief Neth would as well.
Yes, I did hire several officers and a rangemaster from CMPD and more are in the hopper now. I did not recruit them, but certainly would never turn my back on them if they choose to apply here in BH. Fact is, I don't even know who applies unless someone lets me know to watch for them. I don't see the results of the process until all of the many phases of the hiring process are completed and the entire package sits on my desk for approval. If they are disqualified along the way, I may never know they applied.
I think these cop and firefighter haters who write on the blog under all their various aliases might benefit by knowing just what the hiring process for cops consists of. I wonder if any of them could pass?
Here goes: File an application with Personnel/HR Department. IF there are openings, you then start the process.
A very comprehensive written examination, an oral interview, a physical agility test, A Captain's panel oral interview, A polygraph examination, a very thorough background investigation, a medical examination and last but not least, a psychological examination. IF all of these steps are passed successfully, I get to interview you personally to see if I believe you have the right stuff to work wearing the badge of the Beverly Hills Police Department.
The very same process exists in Costa Mesa. There like here, I only the VERY BEST are selected. I set very high standards and expect the badge to be worn proudly, not abused or disgraced. Honesty, integrity and dedication to the highest principles of law enforcement are what the community expects and deserves.
Sadly, the same process doesn't exist for selecting businessmen or city council members. I can assure you that the factual track record of at least two of your sitting council members would have excluded them very early on from wearing a badge in any department..Ok, I guess Carona's policy was a bit less stringent than my standards with some of his reserves....Fortunately, Sheriff Hutchens has fixed that problem.
There will always be cop haters and people who are envious of those of us that wear a badge. They hate us only until they need us. When their child is missing, property stolen, their house is on fire, when paramedics are needed or any one of a thousand things which happen on a daily basis in our society. We don't consider who likes us or hates us when we serve, we just do our jobs day in and day out and remember why we chose this job in the first place, BECAUSE WE CARE!
My hope is that come 2012, new faces will be on your Council and that Costa Mesa will once again be known as the best city in the OC.
PS: Happy Anniversary Geoff!
I hear Dave Brooks from the School Board is thinking of running for City Council.
Is he someone that that the Unions can get behind?
I think if the new Chief hands Gogerty & Huggins their hat and shows them the door a big chunk of compensation goes with them and the old guard culture is significantly changed @ CMPD.
We might be stuck with Rickhoff as perhaps no one else will take him?
Can anyone tell me why CMPD and CMFD will not open up their contracts and get real about pension reform?
Put in a 2 Tier system , and then we can get back to hiring.
I don't see any new hires until such time as the contracts are changed.
Just a thought to moderate:
Employee pay for a public entity is a matter of public record.
While this usually has to be requested under CPRA, this is a pretty pro-active step.
This is usually requested in times of municipal fiscal crisis (or perceived fiscal crisis).
Yes, yes Dave Brooks! Get him on Council so he can stop ruining our Schools on the School Board. Pandering to Hubbard, fighting change and maintaining the old guard, that's what Dave Brooks has done on the School Board. I'd vote for him just to get rid of him and get some new blood on NMUSD.
I find it fascinating that they DRAFT (force employees to work unwanted overtime). Then, they complain about compensation.....Ha!
I think if the new Chief hands Gogerty & Huggins their hat and shows them the door a big chunk of compensation goes with them and the old guard culture is significantly changed @ CMPD.
We might be stuck with Rickhoff as perhaps no one else will take him?
Who is Rickoff? You should at least learn how to spell the mans name.
Try taking of the football helmet before posting.
Come on messy mensy is that not why the last chief left town in a cloud of turmoil?
By refusing to follow through with your numerous unethical requests to have Huggins and Gogerty fired for no other reason that not being your (YES) men, the former chief showed class unlike you and your Alaskan Air fiasco.
The chief works for the city manager not you nor any member of the current goon squad known as the Costa Mesa city counsel.
So remember that while you sit up on the dais and act like a 5year old buffoon smirking and laughing.
You sir are the very definition of what most sane parents consider BAD example of a role model.
Like Hatch or not, he has never shown any leadership. He is a manager with no respect from his employees and it's obvious he is well over his head. I think we should send him packing with the rest of them
Pot Stirrer... Hatch is not trapped in Costa Mesa. He made a choice. There are many City Manager positions open in several local agencies or he could go work for the private sector. I know the report was dated 12/30/10 which means it is no longer relevant. The report should show the current filled city positions and if you are going to use names, at least put the correct ones. The open and/or eliminated positions can be grouped together at the end of the report. It is a excel spreadsheet for goodness sake. Not too hard to update. I sometimes do not get you. You like to portray Hatch as some innocent bystander in this fiasco. All I know is that Alan Roeder would of spoken up at the council meeting when Riggy attacked employees. Hatch sat there like a scared puuppy. Hopefully at the next election the new council will get rid of Hatch and get a true leader.
Can you imagine if Katrina Foley decided to run for Council?
I can't see a Union candidate that will not get crushed on the issue of Pension Reform. Perry " I got my pension" Valentine will be a poster child if he decides to run. Most other candidates are whack jobs.
Maybe someone from a Special District / School Board. But other than Brooks no candidates are sympathetic to the Union cause.
McEvoy will be easy to beat next time around.
So, it is likely Unions will attack with a bunch of national Union money to try and destroy the fabric of our city for their benefit.
If the Unions thought a current Council Member was soft or vulnerable and / or they had a decent candidate they would be trying for a Recall. But their polling shows them they have neither.
From what I hear, Katrina Foley is losing supporters at a faster rate than the DOW Jones!
To "Change @ CMPD"
For the last several years, Capt. Gogerty has been the only bright spot of leadership within the city management ranks. He has earned the respect of the troops and civilian employees, which I certainly cannot say about ANY of the councilMEN nor "CEO" Tom Hatch.
As far as "Rickhoff", I think it's safe to say you are referring to Officer Allen Rieckhof, the former CMPA President. Perhaps this is a personal vendetta, possibly pertaining to last years election battle, because it sure sounds like one.
Did you know two weeks ago Officer Allen Rieckhof was in the news again, this time for performing an emergency baby delivery? Amazing because I bet most cops would rather face a suspect armed with a gun, and probably most men for that matter, would rather be anywhere else...
The Officer Rieckhof I know is hands down one of the best street officers I have ever worked with. He is exceptionally well rounded, skilled and knowledgeable. He has taken hundreds of DUI's off the street. He is a good communicator and expert in many facets of public safety. He is an informal leader and the one you want arriving first when crap hits the fan. And believe me, it's hitting the fan more and more everyday. Costa Mesa is lucky to have him.
Unlike Hatch and this council, other than the above, I won't name names, but from the top of my head here are the badge numbers of sworn personnel who have already left and their losses are directly attributable to this council...(this is only in the last 3 months, and does not include early retirements and others further back that saw the writing on the wall)
598- to Irvine PD
597- to Newport Beach PD
596- quit LE and moved out of state
595- to Beverly Hills PD
594- to La Habra PD
591- to Cypress PD
590- to Westminster PD
587- to La Habra PD
574- to Manhattan Beach PD
529- to Beverly Hills PD
There are others still testing elsewhere. Some of these that have left were safe and not subject to layoff. Some had specialized experience, SWAT, Hostage Negotiator, Detective, South Coast Plaza, Motorcycle Officer and military experience - all were very valued personnel- at least at 99 Fair Drive anyway...
"HadEnuf" clearly you are a cop in this town who should be working, not complaining about how terrible you have it. Could badge 529 be Dave Snowden? If so, please remind Dave that while he bashes our City for streamlining and saving money, the jail outsourcing plan we are looking at is the same one he has in Beverly Hills. If the Council's plans are so terrible, how come they are looking at the same jail plan that Snowden has in Beverly Hills. Such a double standard.
At "Why not open contracts?"
Anyone that would consider opening with Riggy and Mensy is a fool, they, nor their numbers can be trusted. Riggy has publicly stated everyone should be taking a 25% pay cut. Wehave taken cuts for several years now. No one is asking for more. He is already bargaining in "bad faith". He is ALSO after pensions and benefits. I think We ALL agree pension reform is needed, nobody wants to be without if they can even actually make 30 years as a cop- most don't. Ask around, the CMPA offered up a 2 tier retirement at last negotiation, city didn't want to broach it then.
Riggy wants to go after sick leave and assign a set amount of sick days each year. That doesn't work for public safety and here's why...
1. I have NEVER used 12 or 14 sick days or whatever he thinks we should get each year. Only twice have I come close, and that was when both my kids were born (both C-section at that). By implementing a use it or lose it, people will use it because there is no reason not to. This in turn creates more overtime because shifts have to be filled, usually by DRAFT on a sick call in.
2. He claims it is a huge cashout liability at separation, but the reality is if officers currently don't use it, they can only cash out half of their primary sick bank, which is realistically cents on the dollar compared to the amount that they have accrued by the time they retire. Those that have resigned lost it completely. By officers using it each year,the city is paying full value AND the overtime needed to cover it.
3. Officers get hurt. The workers comp system is so screwed up that officers HAVE to use their sick time to get paid. Workers comp can take 90 days to accept if an injury is work related, and they do so in many cases; even cases where the injury is AUTOMATICALLY PRESUMED to be a work related injury...(back injury, heart attack, MRSA, Hernia, etc, etc.)
We have one out on a heart attack right now who has been off work for approaching 3 months and is still burning his own sick time. This is a 25+ year cop..remember heart attack is presumed injury automatically attributed to the work and stresses of the job...so now how does the 12 sick days a year, use it or lose it work out?
Maybe it works in the private sector, but cops don't have risks consisting of papercuts...we sustain A LOT of injuries John Q. Citizen doesn't hear about.
Here's the sad part, had Riggy worked with associations, collaborated and built consensus, I would have made more concessions and elected a 2 tier retirement system for newhires. I bet others would have also, we always have. If the CMPA would, than likely the CMFA would follow suit as the CMCEA and CMPMA that always happened in the past. That from the PD alone would have saved significant dollars especially with the PD looking at losing 20-25% of personnel at the upper end within the next 5 years. Opportunities lost due to city council's leadership failure...
Gotta go now, time to teach my son chest bumping 101 so he can compete in future union thuggery...
Okay, one more thing I forgot in my last post...
Since the city's report shows total compensation, and it seems most don't have issue with base pay but total comp because of the current cost of pensions,
1. PERS just had a record breaking year on returns, so in a couple of years when things smooth out and the cost has gone down, do I get to complain that I took an XX % pay cut in my total comp because the cost of my pension went down?
2. What about all the years (over half my career) where the city paid 0- zero, zilch, nada into my retirement because it was superfunded? I think maybe I was robbed in my "total compensation" pay....
Say city, how about including all that and averaging it out over the employees service life (past and present) to reflect the true cost?
Geoff,
I have to differ a little on our statement that Hatch is a "good guy". He may be, but he is also a little gutless.
Be aware, costa mesa union groups asked, IN THE NAME OF TRANSPARENCY, that all employee NAMES be removed- answer NO. Also, if the city wants to be truly TRANSPARENT, they at least should post actual hourly wage, ( most on the list make less then $35/hr) and they post the actual CITY REIMBURSEMENT DOLLARS ( money the city was repaid from state and other entities for things like the Fair, Marathon, and Wild Fires) Police and Fire work Overtime for these special events and the city is reimbursed for that salary- ALMOST $800,000 ANNUALLY) The city actually makes a profit on the EXTRA hours an employee works.
Hatch thought about it but in the end the Council and the $200,000 /yr PR GUY felt that wouldn't be right to let the public know the ACTUAL TRUTH. It doesn't fit their agenda.
Alright, can't resist...
At "RickandJenn"
Yes I am a proud CM Cop. In spite of all the recent BS, it is still a great dept and community to work for and in.
No, I am not working, I'm on my days off. I am of the very large percentage that works without regard to holiday and normal business hours. But yes, I should get back to "work" as I am putting together a training powerpoint to further enable and educate your officers - on my own time and dime. So if I take a breather and choose to engage in Geoff's blog, thats my business, done from the confines of my home and my home computer sitting in my boxers...
As far as officer #529, that is not Dave Snowden, he was a former award winning Detective, with major fraud experience and HNT experience. He could have been a future leader.
I previously worked for, have great respect for and have spoken with Dave Snowden in regard to the jail situation during the swearing in ceremony of the two former CM officers. When his jail privatized, they utilized the current workers for other positions.
CM could do that, many of our jailers are also seeking employment elsewhere. For those that are left, why not move them into the CSI, CSS, Park Ranger and other support positions needed to be filled? Than you are not terminating a good, current employee, and thereby not outsourcing a held public position as prohibited by the Govt. Code...just my two cents, but see some actual meaningful dialogue and input from an "engaged" employee...just imagine if the council would've tried it...
HadEnuf, thanks... for everything except that "boxers" image... Ewwww! :-)
Why not open contracts?
The council does not want to open contracts or negotiate anything. This never was and never will be about true pension reform or saving our city from this alleged fiscal catastrophe. This council is about demonizing all public sector employees, whipping the community into a state of panic over a perceived crisis, dismantling unions and the working middle class to damage the democratic party, and keeping Righeimers face in the media to achieve name recognition so the poorly informed voters check the box next to his name in some future election.
And in the process make working conditions so poor that employees leave en masse only to be replaced by contractors or consultants so the city essentially outsources itself.
And using our tax dollars to defend this experiment in court.
Dear LE Friends,
Can't one of you arrest the council Gang of Four (all but Leece) pursuant to PC 370?
Just a thought. Thanks for being there.
HadEnuf, VERY WELL written. All correct, and accurate; especially those ID numbers. Thank you for clarifying. And thank you for taking time out of your day to post something accurate for a change.
It's sad to see one of the best Police agencies in OC get dragged through the dirt like this. I only wish more of the 110,000 residents knew more about what was going on.
Police work is a dangerous job. Ask the family members of the SD Officer who was shot point blank, twice, with a shotgun, in the face over the weekend what they think about your silly "revolution" in pension reform and transparency.
Your bad day = fellow employee does a crappy powerpoint and you don't land some contract or deal
Their bad day = Staph infection, slipped disk in back, stab wound with a screwdriver, prick by a loaded syringe with heroin and HIV, Hepatitis exposure, car crash, lawsuit, negative media coverage, no sleep, heart attack, broken bones,,,,, getting your face blown off with a shotgun after someone flags you down for help...
Save the politics, and games for a different arena. Leave the Public Safety employees alone. It's a job that most us can't do. It will take years off your life at the end of the day.
And, News Flash, Costa Mesa IS NOT Irvine, or Newport Beach. Go on a ride along sometime and learn more about the city we live in. There are freaks and very dangerous people out there on our streets. People that you would be terrified of.
But, CM Officer's do the job knowing this and all of you spit in their faces and disrespect them by plastering their wages all over the net like its some kind of dirty laundry. Well, bravo to you City Council. Here is your academy award....
Shame on you Costa Mesa City Council....
Your lack of ethics, morals, and leadership truly disgusts me. I never should have voted for you. Show me where I sign for a recall.
Hadenuf, I'm lost. Why are people purportedly leaving CMPD. Things are great for PD. Your Department took very minimal personnel cuts in the budget battle (and in fact the new Chief can bring several of those positions back) There is no outsourcing plan for CMPD and your MOU union contract is locked in until 2014. You make the same amount that you did last year and year before (in fact, more) You lost the helicopter, but those pilots exercised bumping rights and kept their jobs. Where is the pain? If this is purely emotional because you don't like the City fixing the financial mess that previous Councils made, than say it. Otherwise, identify how you are being hit so hard. When I look at the compensaiton report I see base salaries that are not so bad, but then everyone doubles with the crap that you guys get that the average Joe six pack in the private sector does not. That is what angers people like me. Why shouldn't your final pay reflect what everyone else makes. $150k a year cops and $175k a year is just plain WRONG.
HadEnuf please stop trying confuse RickandJenn with facts.
OK, I'm gonna duck and cover before the reply to that one comes in! Yikes!
I meant the replies to Max. mizatoe out-jumped me.
I'm off to the Parks Commission meeting...
Max said...
Why shouldn't your final pay reflect what everyone else makes. $150k a year cops and $175k a year is just plain WRONG.
Yeah you greedy COP why can't you make minimum wage?
Or, why can't you sit at home and post all day while collecting your SS pay?
Ohh, that's right, you don't pay into SS.
My bad...
Max must be the envy and greed Geoff warned us about.
Comrad Max: Da, everyone should be make same money no matter what dey do. This seem to work in old country til that Ronnie Reagan guy screw things up ans bring capitalism to old country. Why people not all same like old country. Same clothes, same hats, same pay, same everting..
Why try hard to better self? We get same ting anyhow, right?
HadEnuf is so right on with all his statements.
RickandJenn are really Millard, so just consider the source. Anyone that doesn't realize that the "Pension Reform Boot Camp" set the script for these jerks on the council is nuts. The script is being played out all over the state, however with more tact than here. 8-5 work schedules, pension reform, reduced benefits, destruction of unions and all the other crap they toss out without due regard to facts.
I hope whomever Tommy Trojan is does him homework on Mensniffer. I can't wait to see his butt pucker if it comes out that he was really a coke freak in college. Would he take a polygraph if asked to?
Max,
I don’t know if you’re new to the game, but I’ll play along with MY views. First off you ask, “Why are people purportedly leaving CMPD.” Purportedly defined: assumed to be such, reputed or claimed. There is no assuming here my friend it is and has happened. The badge numbers I listed are all sworn personnel who have left within the last 3 months or less and is 100% verifiable. I probably should’ve also included Chief Steve Staveley, as his leaving was also on account of the behavior and working conditions imposed by this council.
To someone who just started paying attention, yes it might seem the police dept. has taken minimal cuts in THIS budget battle. The budget woes have been going on for several years now. While it is true no one has been laid off, retirements were encouraged to help downsize and those positions have gone vacant and then altogether eliminated from the books as though they never existed. This includes leadership positions, sworn positions and instrumental civilian support positions. Sworn personnel are down from 164 less than 3 years ago to 136 today, with several being injured on duty, and questionable if they will ever return to LE. Sworn officers are doing more and more with less, doing tasks previously left to civilian positions that have been eradicated. This takes away from productivity and free proactive patrol time. With diminished resources and personnel, the community is less safe and the officers are more at risk. And as far as the new Chief bringing positions back, how does that work when we can’t keep the ones we have? Is he coming with a time machine? Also, not sure who would come here under this environment, there have been a couple of hires in other city depts who on their first day were given a pink slip. Is that somewhere you want to be and plan for longevity with?
You bring up the helicopter…yes we already feel its loss. While the guys from HB try, it is not an apples to apples comparison, not even close. They are not proactively patrolling CM, calling out DUI’s or suspicious vehicles in commercial areas as Eagle did. They do not know crime areas and trends specific to CM. They do not have the same technology: no moving map/ parcel location maps. No night vision capability. No fire fighting capabilities (bambi bucket). They do not train with Newport and LIfeguards and therefore are not part of rescue operations. The Eagle crew did a lot the general public does not know about. In a general law enforcement sense, I can tell you that Eagle had an extremely quick arrival, even if they were grounded at the time. With Eagle, we had the capability to call them in from home in the case of a major event and even then could have them up inside of 20-30 minutes tops. Eagle also flew more and later hours than any other local helicopter program. HB’s copter eta has been well after the fact in most every major event I have experienced since we contracted with them.
More crooks are being released on a daily basis and if you happened to catch the last CEO-Ebriefing, (I believe Geoff has posted a prior link) there was a link to a recap by Chief Kies for the month of July. How many shootings and ARMED robberies have we had that month and this year?
To be continued...
Continued...
So you want us to feel pain? Admittedly we have done okay. For me personally, I lost out on 15% due to cutbacks and lost positions for over a year. Then the next year, the furlough really equated to about 7-7.5% and now the contribution to PERS and loss of cash out option of CTO/Vacation bank equates to about 8.5% paycut. This contract which you point out will last until 2014. One thing to realize is that with that, in all likelihood there will be no raise, no bonuses, no COLA for what will have been 6 years. I’m not complaining, in the midst of the worst recession since the Depression, we have hung in there. My point being, there have been concessions made and I WAS ready to make more if necessary.
Is this emotional? Absolutely, except you miss the point entirely. The emotion is about the unnecessary dismantling and degradation of a great dept and community I love and have devoted half of my life to. It’s about the loss of future generations, legacy, tradition, and ability to provide outstanding service to our community. It’s about having been one of the most revered, honored and outstanding police departments in SoCal to now being robbed of dignity, treated with hostility as villains, “union thugs”, demonized, villified and pitied, a joke of LE. Like it or not, communities are built around public safety. They are intertwined and a reflection of each other.
Finally, you say, “Why shouldn't your final pay reflect what everyone else makes.” Well, when you have a comparable occupation, let me know. I know that very few can get through the process I did. Very few live up to the standards I set for myself. LE is a difficult job. It’s not as knuckle dragging blue collar as some would have you believe. It takes character, intergrity, courage, communication skills, resolve, and so many other things (for another essay). SoCal LE is at the top of the trade for skill set, education and training. Many of us do have advanced degrees. We have to train and receive education hours only rivaled by a doctor or attorney. In no other walk of life are you expected to make decisions that can take someone’s life or liberties. That can’t and shouldn’t come lightly. As experienced recently, we can go from delivering a baby at the roadside to searching in the middle of the night (without a helicopter) yard to yard for an armed gunman. That’s why we do the job; the variety, the excitement, the guy/girl next to you on that armed gunman search, the ideal, the service.
So Max, or anyone else, I hope this essay has enlightened you. If you’re still angry or jealous, feel free to apply, CMPD is going to have to hire soon at the rate people are leaving. I just pray we don’t have to lower standards to get you through the door.
HadEnuf: I figured out who you are. Your writing is brilliant and your message is one that should shouted far and wide.
I am very proud to have served with you. I know all of the other Chiefs who have served in Costa Mesa would echo my words.
You just made the Badge shine even brighter.
Thank you.
Dave
Talk about ‘Hadenuf’…
This has got to be a new Cauldron record: 2442 words, 6 posts, one article; with nothing to say.
5 times more words than Geoff used in his article. It took him four and a half articles, over a three day period, to use an equal amount!
Could it be time for you to start your own blog? I’m sure Geoff would be happy to add your link to his sight; you can also use the ‘Name/URL’ when signing your name and this will post an automatic hyperlink to your own site (notice the names that are highlighted in blue? Have you ever ‘clicked’ on one?)
I, for one, have... "Hadenuf"!
Ah, OCLonghair, I have not "HadEnuf"... he's trying to educate and, like your friendly host, is unable to do it briefly. He's a kindred spirit in that regard.
OC Longhair: Your posts aren't real brief either with less to say on most accounts. Although I certainly agree with you on nearly all of your comments, I disagree on this one. Reading HadEnuf was very educational and full of good, accurate information. Personally, I hope he keeps it up. RickandJenn and some of Martin's other aliases will hopefully get the point that they are really full of the stuff usually called dog rockets I often find on my front lawn.
Oclonghair-You actually have enough time on your hand to go back and count words on a blog???? Please. How about coming over and helping with my housework?
You must be having a bad hair day if you don't get any of what he said. Get a haircut dude!
ptamom-
I am more amazed OCLonghair can count.
It's a least refreshing he read every word...=)
"Hadenuf"- thank you. Your words are inspiring and I hope more and more people will chose to read the wisdom of the prose.
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