Monday, November 07, 2011

More Red Meat For Pension Reformers

Sunday's Orange County Register was a treasure trove for those among us who believe drastic action must be taken to reform pensions in California.

Steven Greenhut, editor of, presents us with a
commentary on the editorial pages titled "Odds against Jerry on pensions", HERE, that addresses Governor Jerry Brown's recently announced pension reform proposal. While I'm not going to try to steal his thunder - you can read his words at the link above - suffice it to say that he doesn't think Brown's proposals have chance of passing. This paragraph probably says it all, "But the plan probably is dead on arrival in the union-dominated Legislature. One might even argue that Brown is being cynical here - offering reasonably tough reform proposals that he knows will go nowhere. Then he can claim that he has tried to fix the problem but could not surmount the insurmountable." Enjoy your read.

Then, OC Watchdog columnist Teri Sforza presents us with her most recent update on the "$100,000 Dollar Club" - those Californians currently raking in $100,000 or more in pensions. Her column, "$100,000 pension club explodes", HERE, is designed to startle you - it will. For example, she tells us that, between 2005 and 2011 the number of people receiving CalPERS pensions in California rose by 10,358 - a 563% increase!


And, although s
he provides us with the "top ten" - those folks receiving almost unbelievable pensions - Sforza also tells us that the average CalPERS pensioner receives $27,564 and that those in the "$100,000 Club", 12,199 pensioners, represent only 2.3% of the total 536,234 retirees. Still, the numbers rock you back.


So, I suspect Tuesday's Costa Mesa City Council closed session meeting - which will discuss labor negotiations - will likely include some of these numbers. And, if I were a betting guy, I suspect that they will be presented out of context.


Let me be clea
r about one thing. I've heard all the public presentations by "pension experts" and I've heard the self-serving comments by members of the Costa Mesa City Council over the past couple years. I've had conversations and correspondence with members of the employee organizations on the subject and have heard scores of speakers address this issue before the City Council. There is NO doubt in my mind that our current pensions situation has our city in a tough spot. The word "unsustainable" keeps being tossed around and, much as I'd like to throw it right back in the faces of those who use it as an oratorical cudgel, I can't. I believe that something MUST be done to address the ongoing costs of our public employee pensions and that "something" is likely a two-tier system, combined with an increased participation in the costs by employees.

However, those "pension experts" all
agree that if we started tomorrow to offer a reduced pension benefit to new hires, it will not significantly affect our pension costs for years - probably decades. And thereby lies the problem we face. We have folks on our City Council - Jim Righeimer in particular - who campaigned as a "pension reformer", but finds himself in a boat without a paddle. He can't do anything about the pensions because the legally consummated contracts will be in effect until after his term of office expires - unless he gets recalled even sooner.

Righeimer's solution - ratified by the majority on the City Council - is to g
et rid of the employees who are earning those pensions and the "tool" being used is the now-infamous "outsourcing" scheme. And, in their haste to impose this draconian measure, the council forgot the rules, which has resulted in a law suit filed by employees to protect their rights. In response to this situation the City has hired an expensive mercenary - renowned labor lawyer Richard Kreisler, who has a track record of "dealing" with these kinds of issues - to bring some horsepower to the negotiations. He will bill the City $300 per hour - with no cap - to "deal" with this lawsuit.

In years past the relationship between the management of the City and the employee bargaining units has been cordial, right up to and including the most recent difficult years 2008-2010, when the individual units stepped up when asked and tried to find ways to help the City over the dire financial problems it faced. Nobody held a gun to anyone's head - both parties agreed on the contracts and side letters signed at the time. Today, it is my impression that the bargaining units have so little trust in the folks currently running the City that they are very apprehensive about opening discussions at all. We KNOW the City Council doesn't trust the employees because CEO Tom Hatch told them that at a meeting earlier this year with members of the police department staff.


I'd like to find some light at the end of this very, very dark tunnel, but I'm not sure where it will come from. As long as this City Council perpetuates the adversarial relationship - un
til trust is restored on both sides - I just don't see how the employees can feel safe attempting to try to work things out. Maybe I'm wrong - I hope so. I hope wisdom and trust will prevail - and soon.

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Blogger Gericault said...

Fountain Valley has a budget surplus......doing the very same things Costa Mesa used to do, without all the drama, and pain.Also without all the consultants and attorneys.....,0,6859428.story

"Fountain Valley did almost everything neighboring Huntington Beach, Costa Mesa and Newport Beach did in light of the economic downfall, except issue layoffs.

Fountain Valley offered early retirement, outsourced some services and renegotiated employee contracts to save wherever possible."

11/07/2011 06:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Cheech said...

While I agree pensions are problimatic they are sustainable. The general employees in CM have instituted a two tier system and contribute more than the employee portion to the system. Little mention is made of the many years the city paid nothing into the system because it was performing so well. If the Dow goes over 13000 for a few years the system will be fully funded and uf it went to 14000 it could go back to over funded. We all know that our council, like the Republicans in Congress don't want this to happen. They would rather see us and the nation suffer so they can accomplish their political goals and will do everthing in their power to make it happen.

11/07/2011 06:53:00 AM  
Anonymous unanimous said...

fountain valley voted Gus Ayer and Cheryl Brothers off, that helped immensely-otherwise unions would have had those two votes and played hardball. We got rid of Foley and if we can get rid of Leece we will follow in FV footsteps. Unsustainable for fire and police definitely, worse than we can imagine.

11/07/2011 08:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Not Surprised said...

The OC Register clearly has a bias with their articles, so I am surprise Geoff would even comment on it. The general employees and managers currently pay 7.5% of their pension. Fire pays 5%, but that is due to expire even though I know Fire offered to extend it. Police do not pay any of their retirement. Just think if police would step up? Oh and the Dow is pushing 12,000 right now, so things are not as dismal as Righeimer would have you believe.

11/07/2011 08:56:00 AM  
Blogger The Pot Stirrer said...

Not Surprised,
Why? Why are you surprised that I would mention statistics and opinion in the local newspaper that has the largest circulation? Several thousand of your neighbors are reading this stuff and forming opinions based on it. I think it's important to present this kind of information, for perspective, if nothing else.

11/07/2011 09:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Times Have Changed said...

All I have heard is about all these Employee recommendations that have been made but not followed. Yet I cannot find out where they are or what they are. Then I hear about recommendations to change the Business License Fee, a year from now. While I absolutely agree on that, my guess is that we will differ on how much of an increase and what the increased revenue should be used for.

But, can anyone tell me what any of the Employee groups are recommending, now, right now? Not yesterday. Not tomorrow. What are they offering or recommending today?

Even Geoff West gets it that Reform is necessary. Why don’t the emp0loyees?

Even if the Economy turns, or cuts produce revenues, I would not support hiring into an unreformed structure.

Please also remember that these employees have typically been negotiating with the likes of Mandoki. Now they will have to be talking to professionals. Will be a very different environment.

11/07/2011 09:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Not Surprised said...

Fountain Valley is also a General Law city and they do just fine. I am not sure what Unanimous is talking about since Monahan is a Union supporter too. Just look at his past voting record. His current lip service does not have much credibility. If Costa Mesa would just follow Fountain Valley's example, think of where the city would be today? This proves beyond a doubt that Righeimer moved from Fountain Valley to Costa Mesa for his political career. No man of sound mind would move to a city with higher crime, lower performing schools, and in a "supposed" financial crises from a nicer city on the other side of the river. Leece has no power on the council so Unanimous, once again, does not make any sense in his comments. He smells like a troll.

11/07/2011 09:15:00 AM  
Blogger Joe said...

".. We got rid of Foley and if we can get rid of Leece we will follow in FV footsteps..."


Stop lying Jimbo. You only care about getting a seat in Congress. Reform can be had now, without further deaths or extremism.

11/07/2011 10:07:00 AM  
Anonymous Clueless said...

Gericault, Costa Mesa tried to do the same things and was shut down by the employee groups. No renegotiation, no outsourcing, and the early retirements only resulted in further enriched retirees and reduced services.

Are you really so clueless that you don't see the absurd irony in your own post?

Cheech, the past is irrelevant, but if you want to go back in time, why don't we go back to before the insane 3@50% scheme was instituted?

Not surprised, Fire offered to extend for 3 months. Police - the largest chunk, is still silent. Enough with the bias nonsense, everyone from Brown to Villaraigosa knows the pension gig is up. They aren't sustainable, they are destroying budgets and they must be fundamentally changed.

No one is buying this BS anymore, the only ones who don't care about anyone else are those with the crazy pensions.

11/07/2011 10:19:00 AM  
Anonymous Priceless said...

"without further deaths or extremism"?

Priceless! Is that the new union line? Reforming pensions results in "further deaths or extremism"?

11/07/2011 10:21:00 AM  
Anonymous Not Surprised said...

Clueless has some valid points, but 3% at 50 only effects public safety and police pay nothing toward their retirement. There is no incentive for police to open their contracts. The city can't outsource police to a private company and contracting with the sheriff is a bad idea in regards to service. Police hold all the cards here and they know it. The non-public safety groups have already agreed to a two-tier, and they pay most of their PERS anyway, so what point would be for them to open their contracts. What is left to negotiate? Costa Mesa already contracts mowing in parks along with tree trimming. They have looked at outsourcing other operations, especially street sweeping and it always comes back that the city is cheaper. The point is had Righeimer offered to negotiate in good faith months ago, the city would not be where they are today. I am not sure why there is irony in Gericault's comments as he was only paraphrasing from an article published in the HB Independent.

11/07/2011 11:10:00 AM  
Anonymous Tom Egan said...

Pot Stirrer, you conclude with, “As long as this City Council perpetuates the adversarial relationship - until trust is restored on both sides - I just don't see how the employees can feel safe attempting to try to work things out. Maybe I'm wrong - I hope so. I hope wisdom and trust will prevail - and soon.”

What are the chances? Better to ask, Why is our little city acting out of sync with surrounding cities, who’ve negotiated their way to cordial solutions?

It can’t just be that Jim Righeimer hates unions. He’s a smart guy and certainly realizes he’s shot his wad insofar as cutting pension costs. Further, he’s driven off most of the high-ranking, high-paid administration employees – all but Peter Naghavi. If he believes our little city is broke, why does he keep on hiring high-priced mercenaries and awarding contracts without proper safeguards? Puzzling!

Some ideas do come to mind, though. In the good old days, political patronage was a staple of big city politics. Think Tammany Hall in New York. Think the Daley machine in Chicago.

Wikipedia puts it this way: “… [political patronage] may refer to a type of corruption or favoritism in which a party in power rewards groups, families, ethnicities for their electoral support using illegal gifts or fraudulently-awarded appointments or government contracts.”

I’m not saying this kind of corruption is behind what’s going on in our little city, but if it is, it might explain a lot, especially if there are politicians who want to run for higher office.

"We report, you decide."

11/07/2011 01:14:00 PM  
Anonymous X said...

I am not saying Eagan has been urinating on his lawn at night along with Gericault but you decide...

11/07/2011 02:41:00 PM  
Anonymous Not Surprised said...

Oh great another troll. "X" has nothing meaningful to say to this discussion other than a personal attack. Sigh!

11/07/2011 02:52:00 PM  
Anonymous There's no Place like 3% @ 50 said...

Not surprised that Not Surprised is Not Surprised … but he will be, soon.

The fact that PD will not open contracts is a perfect reason for why we need a Charter City. That entitled thinking will surely get that initiative passed. Thanks again for doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

It will be one of the key issues framing the campaign debate. If they give in, winner. If they do not, winner. See the dilemma? They do.

Trust me, PD will open up contracts based on the facts that all other are making changes. They will be forced when real layoffs occur because PD is selfishly holding onto outrageous compensation. Rank & File will even come to table when no one will hire into dwindling ranks. Complaints of overtime will grow loud. Same with FD. In the mean time, professionals will be on the other side of the table. They are not in Kansas anymore.

11/07/2011 03:46:00 PM  
Blogger Gericault said...

how do they know I pee on my lawn.......?


11/07/2011 04:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Clueless said...

Not surprised, it is all about public safety - general employees have stepped up. OCEA needs to drop the lawsuit and work with the city to keep as many functions as possible in-house through reorganization and cost-cutting. Some functions probably should be outsourced like landscaping.

Agreed about the sheriff - bad news for CM, CMPD is great, they just need to get real about pensions.

11/07/2011 04:27:00 PM  
Anonymous I am no doctor, but ... said...

Actually , # 1 symptom for peeing on lawn syndrome is lunatic fringe commentary on political issues. Pretty sure that is how they knew.

It is ok, several suffer during public comments and on blogs.

There is no cure. Avoidance is the only remedy. If not, it gets worse with age. Geoff West is a proof source.

11/07/2011 04:51:00 PM  
Anonymous HadEnuf said...

Some on here are misinformed...the PD does pay toward their own retirement, they pay 5% and unlike the Fire's MOU that had a sunset clause on it, the PD personnel will be paying at least the 5% for the duration of their contract.

I think most recognize that change is needed. The first thing that needs to change is the atmosphere at city hall. But then if your intent is not to work with people, grandstand and just cut and slash personnel and services, and create an environment that is prime for contract disbursement and development to benefit a few, then by all means continue as you are...

However, to affect real change - meaningful, long term change there must be trust, buy in and consensus. Employees need not be vilified, they need to be valued.

I've seen on here people stating safety (PD specifically) doesn't pay anything toward their retirement...already shown incorrect. People think PD should open contract, institute a 2 tier retirement and that would save general city employees. CMCEA agreed to 2 tier a year ago, and yet everyone still got layoff notices and no one has yet to be hired under it.

PD sworn down from 164 a couple of years ago to about 133 today. A couple could still be laid off. So whats the point of opening for 2 tier when there won't be anyone brought in under it for some time? If PD opts for the 2 tier now, will they suddenly hire a bunch of cops and rescind layoff notices?

11/07/2011 05:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Not Surprised said...

There is no place like 3% at 50...
I hope you are right about CMPD opening their contract. I have always thought 3% at 50 was a terrible idea. What is interesting about the charter debate is that most of the charter cities have not abandoned 3% at 50 and are still heavily unionized.

11/07/2011 05:29:00 PM  
Anonymous I have had enough too said...

I think HadEnuf is Jess.

Trouble I have with the comments is that it is typically of PD. We are the best. We are right. And the rest of the world is wrong.

I think the PD Union tactic of the Riggy Trailer set the tone until PD Union apologizes.

So there we have it. Mexican stand off. I bet on the Council. Issues and strategies are in their favor.

11/07/2011 05:33:00 PM  
Anonymous Penny said...

Charter cities have to negotiate contracts and uphold them just like a general law city. If CM went to a charter tomorrow the contracts would remain in force. The employees in CM cannot open a contract as long as the council is involved in less than legal activities. The layoff notices violated the contract and have to be withdrawn in order for the employees to come back to the table, The contract is on-line so read it if you think otherwise. The CMPD tried to warn the citizens about how certain council candidates treated contracts so it's no surprise that the city has to spend unnecessary dollars on litigation. All this to further a personal political career. The employees have been put in a defensive position and the should defend themselves and their families from political predators like this.

11/07/2011 05:43:00 PM  
Anonymous HadEnuf said...

(cont) Now before people jump all over my last I'll conclude...I agree change needs to be made and a 2 tier retriement system is inevitable, regardless of what has happened in the past, so lets look forward.

I agree with some of Gov Brown's reforms. It should be a 3 year final average. I don't think "airtime" purchases should be allowed - the taxpaying public (myself included) should not be on the hook for time not worked, employees can invest in an outside 457 plan to somewhat compensate for that time they are trying to purchase.

Current employees should be phased in to pay the full employee portion (9% the maximum allowed by PERS rules). Any future COLA's could be applied here first.

A 2 tier retirement should be implemented for new hires, then we should get back to staffing sworn appropriately where officers are not constantly subject to draft and citizens are not put at risk and receiving poor response times/service.

I propose the new hire retirment plan should be a progressive 2 @ 50 so those that start early in life and want/need to leave early still can, but those that stay are earning higher rate (e.g. 2.1 % at 51, 2.2% at 52, 2.3% at 53, 2.4% at 54 and 2.5% @55). This would encourage a little more longevity, paying into the system longer,likely hiring a little older (read mature).

With this change in retirement rate also comes a lowered ceiling, maybe split the difference between the current 90% and former 75% maximum. Maybe take it to 82.5% so if someone started at 22, worked 33 years to 55, earned 2.5% per year they would have earned that number.

Finally before anyone jumps all over me because most of these changes are all geared toward new hires, let me say this...what time has already been worked should be set in stone. I would entertain current employees time going forward at the new rate as identified above (e.g. current 20 yrs worked 3@50, remaining years worked at new system 2@50/2.5@55 with a city 457 contribution- this would decrease the impact of loss of anticipated retirement income yet relieve some of that unfunded liability); however, I think that would be marred in courts forever. Surely defined contribution plans absolutely should not be considered for public safety positions.

So there you have it, pension reform from an engaged PR, no attorneys fees, services and positions restored. Now take the $ Riggy wouldve spent but was saved on that, give a sorry for the BS bonus to city employees for the holidays, Riggy and Mensy step down and all will be right with the world. I'll even donate my bonus to charity in Riggy's name to research LONG QT syndrome. Don't go away mad Jim, just...

11/07/2011 05:59:00 PM  
Blogger Gericault said...

11/07/2011 06:03:00 PM  
Blogger Gericault said...

Disparage me all you want .........but don't talk smack about my lawn.....

11/07/2011 06:03:00 PM  
Blogger Gericault said...

Is it just me ......or has "The Only Newspaper in Costa Mesa" thats not a Newspaper, not been paid in awhile???
C'mon Colin McCarthy.....quit paying all the "taxpayers' money on expensive mailers sending out your shrill shill, and let a professional get some of that $$$$$
The other "blog" of "he who we shall not name", responded under insinuations that no one read his blog by saying "he only posts those comments that support his cause" and so therefore comments.
Geoffs last DP piece....(well done sir), garnered dozens of comments, yet only one main dissenter, who kept harping about the "silent majority".
which leads me to another point......
I walked precincts with another republican.....first time ever, and I was surprised by the responses we received. These were from people who......couldn't be named, for fear of reprisals....
but they were shocked and saddened by the "methods" used by Righeimer and Co. Senseless, needless, divisive, and costly. He has little respect from lifelong Republicans in this city.

So thats the need for his rush. If he can't get a charter city set up in time for June ......he's done.
I know......we're all still waiting to get the "business license" long over-due fix on the ballot , but , you know, THAT'S taken a back seat.
Imagine Righeimer trying to run a Charter City “Gimme it ALL” ballot in October when the Presidential race is running. Fat chance....DOA.
While Colin, Ethan, and Riggy are busy running around ginning up the base at the local Gin Mill about how terrible public workers are.....something else happened.

11/07/2011 07:22:00 PM  
Blogger Gericault said...

Some people got fed up and occupied Wall Street. problem. Couple of hippies and out of work malcontents.
Than last week over 7000 shut down the Port of Oakland.
The Occupy camp remains in ...Irvine, where over 1000 people just hit the streets
and not your usual suspects .....
Occupy Santa Ana isn’t going anywhere quietly.....
An Occupy Costa Mesa Facebook page popped up
and got over 800 people in days, and over 228 talking about it as I’m writing this right now.

Will it last?...... who knows, but talking with those people they aren’t Righeimers fans and I can tell.

11/07/2011 07:22:00 PM  
Blogger Gericault said...

On the local front......
In the last few meetings, this cabal.....has offered up;
Blocking a lake on Golf Course Dr., creating Variance precedent and building a huge tower in Mesa Verde.......Pissed off Mesa Verde Residents.
Privatizing TeWinkle Park with a sports bar and insider gaming to select the operator.....Pissed of Mesa Del Mar
Resurrected the 19th street bridge....Pissed off Westside, Eastside. BIG TIMEL
And bringing up a building a new parking lot next to the Football field in Fairview park on vernal pools....Pissing off Westside, Upper and Lower Birds....and generally everybody.

What’s the purpose of this post?......... Shrug??

I’m just commenting on what I’ve seen happening in the trenches........and the war is not going well for them.

Good luck Gary, Colin, etc..........I think you're screwed.

11/07/2011 07:23:00 PM  
Anonymous HadEnuf said...

@ I have Hadenuf too...

Not Jess. Read my 2nd post regarding retirement reforms I suggested. I dont think Jess or anyone else as close to retirement as him would support those, because its a hit he will take in retirement that he cant make up and lasts indefinitely...

Try worrying less about who I am and debate the issues if you want. Any city employee would be nuts to post under their own name for fear of reprisal/retribution with this CC crew. There are some who know me and that's fine, they are my choosing. I will tell you this, I am a long time employee who cares, and I only post under this name and only on topics I can offer insight to. I try to keep my posts productive and positive and if you've read anything of mine, you will see that is generally the case.

As far as we are right, we are better than everyone else, where do you read or infer that? I value all employees, PD, Fire and City as it takes us all to provide the complimentary services. I also value the members of the community who help and appreciate truly is a partnership to be effective.

PD is not better than any of the other, just unique in its problems and challenges. My opinion in the reason why you see Fire facing outsourcing and not PD is because it is a control issue and quality of life issue that affects property values and service unlike any other.

As far as the trailer, I believe Righeimer's animosity toward public safety has been there long before that. Again, my opinion, but I suspect it is a couple of things...1- Fire couldnt save his daughter and he and his wife were possibly questioned or investigated by Police on a suspicious, unknown cause death/neglect issue since what I have read was that she was briefly left alone and the incident happened in the bathtub. Very sad and tragic all around. OR #2- he just believes he is better and smarter than the rest of us, and he has suffered through financial risk and doesn't have the job stability or retirement public safety does and is jealous...

Now lets move on and talk about how do we fix the pension issues and this city?

11/07/2011 09:08:00 PM  
Anonymous Nuf of Nuf said...

Jess, I am not surprised someone close to retirement would load all the burden on the new cops. What do we do with the $18 & $25 M Callers payments?

Why do you think we need to retire you to the Beach or the River?

Do you really think Dimel will park that trailer & the animosity that "drove" it? I don't. I think the sense of entitlement is alive & well I'm CMPD.

11/07/2011 09:13:00 PM  
Anonymous who ya gonna vote? said...

Geri in the cult, I look forward to when Geoff West posts his thoughts on potential candidates from your side. That will be an entertaining to say the least.

I too have been in my neighborhood and results are ok support of. Council. Yes, there are a few supporters of "Cancel" , but I find them likely to ignore facts & gravitate towards emotion. Those that will briefly listen take down those signs.

Facts are there are fewer and fewer signs.

11/07/2011 09:19:00 PM  
Anonymous Heart for Costa Mesa said...

Gericault, I looked at the picture of your lawn. Is it that little brown spot in the lower right corner? I have not stopped laughing since I saw your comment to the creepy trolls. Thanks! Laughing is good, when we are so sad and pissed off about what the city council is trying to do to our nice City.

I agree with what you said about them "on the local front" They alienate more people every two weeks! Almost everyone has figured it out by now, those boys never wanted to do anything constructive about pensions or the budget, they just wanted to make flamboyant, sensational gestures and get a lot of attention. I don't like being used. Fountain Valley took care of business quietly, orderly, effectively and with class. We could have too.

11/07/2011 10:26:00 PM  
Anonymous 20+ year City employee and voting resident. said...

Please keep in mind, as Mr. Bever commented at the PERS Study Session, that the Misc. Employees have been contributing the .5% of the 2.5% @ 55 since the enhancement was implemented. We do not just pay the "employee's" contribution, but the "employer's" as well. Therefore the City's current formula of which the City contributes is at the rate of 2% @ 55, not 2.5% @ 55.

Just wanted to bring some more insight.

11/07/2011 10:38:00 PM  
Anonymous X said...

Gericault's hit list keeps getting longer, now he added Ethan. This guy publicly insults most elected officials. Is this wise? He even picks on Sanitary Directors, what is his beef with that department? Shirley (relax), school districts could benefit from his scrutiny. Is this a way to build consensus? Everytime he adds a new name to his hit list, that person adds 50 to the growing base of anti Gericault people. That translates over to Genis, Leffler, Brenneman, grandma, Humphries, and Valantine being futher marginalized. He may well be an anarchist, just saying, you decide.

11/08/2011 07:56:00 AM  
Blogger Gericault said...

Ethan helps with the CM Taxpayers....I don't make the list....I just watch the players.

11/08/2011 09:25:00 AM  
Anonymous Rob Dimel said...

Nuf of Nuf-

"Do you really think Dimel will park that trailer & the animosity that "drove" it? I don't. I think the sense of entitlement is alive & well I'm CMPD."

I'm not really sure what that means. That trailer is in the past. As it keeps getting said, times have changed, what's past is past, we need to live in the now. Do you have anything fresh?

I guess it comes down to the old "what came first, the chicken or the egg" cliche. Did that trailer cause Mr. Righeimer's animosity toward the employees, or did his animosity toward the employees cause the trailer? Either way, it's inconsequential at this point. So why is it a topic of discussion.

The trailer didn't work, he won. He ought to be happy with that result, no?

As for Had Enuf, it's not Jess. Even if it were, why would it matter? He has made reasoned statements and made several valid points. He clearly demonstrates that the employees (if he is a representative sample and I believe he is)understand the issues, have suggestions to help solve them. Is it that he is not coming across as some union goon that bothers you? Is it that you need him to some raving "Hoffa-esque" nut to support your position? There clearly is no evidence of entitlement in anything he says. In fact, I would say I don't see any sense of entitlement in any of my co-workers. However, it's a label that some love to throw out to suit their narrow view.

Perhaps you could "deconstruct" your definition of "sense of entitlement" and then see if reality actually fits into the mold.

11/08/2011 12:35:00 PM  
Anonymous curb jumping said...

The police are supposed to apologize for a billboard that turned out to be 100% right? Where were they wrong on Righeimer? The part where he likes to get involved in lawsuits, where the rules don't apply to him, or that he doesn't feel the need to honor contracts? Now that is some ridiculous non-logical thinking even for that group of Righeimer hangers on.

11/08/2011 04:25:00 PM  
Anonymous i m still here said...

Rob Dimel.

Forget Riggy. Parking that trailer at your house gives me concern at your participation and clouded judgement in representing your Union.

I have no doubt that you do not see the sense of entitlement in your words and action , as well as the words of Hadenuf. I believe it to be genetic.

I would ask you to sit down with Bobby to understand the bin cop margin ABLE. I think it would be eye opening to you. You need to add the cost of you into the equation. That thinking drives the sense of entitlement.

Nice to see you blogging again. I thought someone got some sense in you and muzzled you.

11/08/2011 05:31:00 PM  
Anonymous Rob Dimel said...

Still here...

Again, I'm not sure how the trailer issue gives you pause to my judgement. First off, it was covered. Never open to public view, unless it wasn't in my driveway. Frankly, that's besides the point. I take ownership that I was involved in that campaign. Not going to hide from it, not going to minimize it. It is what it is. It didn't work, it didn't have the desired effect (I guess that's politics) and it was a year ago. So, again do you have anything fresh?

"I would ask you to sit down with Bobby to understand the bin cop margin ABLE." What's that mean? I understand that I need to be figured into the equation with regard to the ABLE bottom line. However, do I not still get figured into the bottom line now? ABLE or not? So again, have anything fresh? ABLE is gone, my head din't explode, I didn't throw a tantrum over it, that's life. Just like the Army. I have new orders, and I go where my orders take me. As I said before, it is what it is.

So again, I ask, where's the sense of entitlement? I would argue I have no sense of entitlement. If you actually knew me, you would know that.

As far as the "muzzling" thing, I'm a Constitutional Conservative. I have a strong belief in the first and second amendments. So I would suppose that if I'm entitled to anything, it's to freely speak the truth, and take ownership of what I say.

11/08/2011 08:54:00 PM  
Anonymous Not Going Anywhere said...

Remember folks, Dimel is the VP of the Police Union negotiating with the City. Dimel has stated that ABLE could have run for the same cost as what HB is charging.

That should be concerning math for someone that is leading the discussion for the Police Union. The all in cost for a service with 3 minimum hours a day coverage yet in the air for 16 (a little over $300k) is compared by Dimel to the M&O cost only. Dimel’s math does not include the cost of himself or any other pilot, etc.

That is the sense of entitlement. That PD thinks they have a job for life, that they can compare an all in cost to just the operating cost and not factor in the cost for themselves.

I had a job where my company trained me to be a commercial real estate agent. Paid for my formal training and accreditation, then trained me on the job. If I wanted to use those credentials on the side, I could, they demanded a cut. Reasoning being that they invested, want to protect the asset and get a return.

But what Dimel does on his time should not concern us. So says Dimel. Pilots can go fly privately for Adderton, make extra money, even though they always talk of the on job stresses, and then publically support Adderton taking ABLE private. Entitlement.

All this is OK because none of us could pass the big blue testing and vetting process.

There are lots of people who are just becoming aware that the VP of the Police Union was a guy who drove and parked the infamous trailer at his home.

Here is the evidence of entitlement beautifully put , and this should cause outrage to the taxpayer.

Dimel quote “I understand that I need to be figured into the equation with regard to the ABLE bottom line. However, do I not still get figured into the bottom line now? ABLE or not?”

You see the sense of entitlement to a lifetime job. He is part of the equation, in a helicopter, a patrol car or as a meter maid. This flawed blue logic can never comprehend the reality of the math we all face which is that the savings comes when the cost of Dimel is not factored in to the equation. And with that entitlement mindset, how is anyone ever going to have a reality based discussion with the Police Union?

The only thing that will change is when the layoffs occur, the Police Union, and Fire Unions will be held accountable.

11/09/2011 08:53:00 AM  
Anonymous Wyatt Earp said...

Not going anywhere...are you really that ignorant? Or are you just trying to confuse everyone? What Dimel is saying, and has consistently said, is that he earns his salary whether you assign him to ABLE, patrol, detectives, etc. So the only real cost savings to the city is in the M&O.
Further, keeping this in mind, Dimel is merely saying the cost to the city to use HB is essentially the same as it was to have ABLE.
You lose all credibility when you accuse him of having a sense of entitlement to his job. There has not been even a scent of that in anything he has posted. The only ones who think that way are haters such as yourself. The trailer issue is nothing more than a red herring meant to engender hatred toward Dimel because he was willing to stick his neck out to inform the public. Again, a loss of credibility on your part. Please keep it up, I look forward to shredding your thoughts even further.

11/09/2011 09:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Nuf Rope said...

Thanks Wyatt for sharing with everyone that Dimel is not the only public safety worker who has a sense of entitlement to their job.

Where else can you have a mentality where your are entitled to have a job and make the same money no matter what?

In the world everyone else lives in, they stop making a widget & go in another direction , either you or someone else loosed the job.

Shred thinking all you want. The public is fed up with this thinking.

When you see Dimel, please ask him to keep speaking out. Geoff will give him all the air time and rope he needs

I wish a real journalist would pick up on the cop math mentality. The public is and will be outraged.

11/09/2011 11:48:00 AM  
Anonymous where's the commie? said...

This thread has turned into righeimer's herd basically repeating the Red Scare... pathetic

11/09/2011 12:11:00 PM  
Anonymous supporter said...

Dimel scares the Righeimers of the world.

Look at everytime Dimel writes a comment. How many people come out and criticize it. Dimel gives logical well thought out arguments to the current fiscal situation.

He doesn't get angry or name call. The Council supporters have to put a stop to it because he makes people think.

So Dimel needs more rope because he certainly has a lot to say and I for one want to hear it.

11/09/2011 02:56:00 PM  
Blogger The Pot Stirrer said...

Me, too...

11/09/2011 03:12:00 PM  
Anonymous Retired said...

Clueless should call Purchasing and ask for a list of all current contracts, which are in essence services contracted, that are already in place such as: the contract for bus shelter cleaning, for traffic signal maintenance, for landscaping of medians & city facilities, for tree trimming (scheduled and emergency tree response), for sidewalk cleaning on Newport Blvd, for weed removal, for janitorial, for bee removal, for coyote removal, for sidewalk grinding, for police car wash cleaning, for elevator maintenance for hvac maintenance, for most city projects, for.....

Is there a contract for cutting sneakers from overhead utility lines, for pressure washing playgrounds, for unclogging toilets at city facilities, for picking up debris left from transient encampments, for picking up all the furniture dumped in the alleys and sidewalks, for clean up at parks after birthdays, holiday bbq's, city events such as concerts in the park that allow the consumption of alcohol, for removing fecal matter left from transients, for placement of the 'no fair parking signs' during the fair, for retrieving someone's keys that fell in a storm drain or in tewinkle lake, for.....oh I forgot, I'm retired with a fat pension from performing all the above, what do I care!

11/09/2011 09:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Wyatt Earp said...

Nuf rope or whatever you want to call yourself today....again thanks for accusing us of something that is obviously untrue. Any reasonable person can see that Dimel or myself are not stating anything could even be reasonably construed as sense of entitlement. But, because Dimel and others present facts, not fantasy, you have to attack the messenger instead of the message. Again, I beg of you to keep it up. One of us will always be here to set the record straight.

11/10/2011 07:39:00 AM  

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