Wednesday, October 19, 2011

De Facto Hiring Freeze Imposed By Council, And More

Confirming, once again, that good decisions are NEVER made late in City Council meetings, last night the council ignored CEO Tom Hatch's reasonable solution to Steve Mensinger's earlier request for a hiring freeze until a second pension tier is in place. Instead of permitting him to exercise the judgment they allegedly hired him for when it comes time to consider hiring a new employee, they snatched that authority right out of his hands.

First Mayor Pro Tem Jim Righeimer, in a not-unexpected attempt to micromanage the pr
ocess, suggested that before Hatch authorizes any new hiring he send an email to the council advising them of his plans. As the discussion evolved it was clear that Righeimer wanted to have veto power over any such decision. The conversation bounced around, with Eric Bever and Mensinger also trying to clarify exactly what the instructions would be to Hatch. Finally, Mayor Gary Monahan cut to the chase with this comment:

"I think the message being try to say over here is to the different departments, if we need, you feel really need help in the department and need to hire some people, we need to, we need to get this second tier done. That's the message I'm hearin' and I'm sayin' and whatever else I seem to be hearin' from everybody else."

That's pretty clear to me. No new hiring until and unless a second pension tier is implemented for the organization needing more staff. There were no exceptions noted and no specific authority given to Hatch to deviate from that statement, so it looks to me like we will be stuck at 440 full time employees - nearly 40 below the budgeted authorize strength - unless the employee organizations open up their contracts and agree to a second pension tier for new hires.

One can only assume that those frozen jobs include the two management slots in the
CEO's office that appear to be earmarked for Dan Joyce and Bill Lobdell. It's also interesting to note that, while every other part of the organization has been asked to slice staff and most have the specter of outsourcing hanging over their heads, it seems like Hatch has been staffing his organization to the hilt.

During council member comments Mensinger made it clear that he was going after retiree medical benefits and open-ended pension benefits. He asked the staff to come back with reports on each - just as he had done on the hiring freeze two weeks ago. If I'm a current employee or a retiree I'm really going to be getting nervous now about just what he might have in mind for me. It's not going to be good news.

Right at the very end of the open session, as the clock on the wall approac
hed 11:00 p.m. - contract City Attorney Tom Duarte reported that the Costa Mesa Firefighters Association, which had agreed last year to pay 5% of their PERS pensions costs for a year - an arrangement which expires next month - had not responded favorably to the City's request to extend that payment through the end of their current contract in 2014. Instead, they counter-offered to pay it for three months and asked to open negotiations to discuss layoff procedures. He further stated that, in response to the letter the City sent to each of the six bargaining units, the OCEMA and the Police Management Associations refuse to open up their contracts. No word on the status of the remaining three units, but I've heard grumblings that none of the six will be willing to open up their entire contracts - they just don't trust the council, and who could blame them?

Other things happened last night, as well. The three new RFPs were approved for release, although some slick maneuvering was done by Righeimer to make Wendy Leece think she was voting to change the scoring criteria back to an even playing field - removing the 50% weight for Pricing - on two of the three. She was conned and that change only occurred on one of them.

Perhaps the most
bizarre piece of business conducted last night was generated by Bever. When it came time to consider appointments to several city committees, out of the blue he expressed concern that we were making these appointments twice a year, and that we had too many members on the committees. This was a truly strange pronouncement following City Clerk Julie Folcik's observation that we had received a bumper crop of applicants for each of the committees.

Bever went on to propose the council realign the city policy in question with the following changes: 1) reduce eac
h committee to only 9 regular members; 2) permit ONLY Costa Mesa residents to sit on City committees; 3) accept NO late applications and 4) only recruit for these committees once a year - in the spring.

One had the feeling that he felt it was too much trouble to do this twice each year. Of course, since he's a part-time, part-time council member with an attendance record that would get him a place in the corner with a dunce cap on his head in elementary school, it's peculiar that he would complain about this stuff.

So, the council voted, 4-1, with Leece voting NO, to simply reappoint all the incumbents, make the changes to the policy mentioned above and deal with the problem in the spring. They chose to blow off the three dozen applicants for spots on the committees without so much as a "thank you" for applying. This is a stupid, incompetent way of dealing with issues, but not surprising these days.

The only person they DID appoint was Ernie Feeney, to the open position on the Senior Center Board. That one came as no surprise.


After much discussion, the council agreed to retain the
current methodology of recording meeting minutes with one exception. For speakers in the Public Comments segment, they agreed to permit a brief - 5 word maximum - description of the subject, along with the person's name, city and location on the Granicus video record where their comments can be found. This may have been their most sound decision of the evening.

The council concurred with Finance and Information Technology Director Bobby Young's assessment and response to the Harvey M. Rose Associates financial review. The City rejected every suggestion and voted to receive and file the report, 5-0.


Costa Mesa Pol
ice Captain Les Gogerty gave a brief report on the use of the Huntington Beach helicopter for the past three months. He indicated that they are averaging 82 calls for service per month, 35 hours of flight time, which includes 13 hours of calls for service. We are presently negotiating a 6-month extension with Huntington Beach, through the end of our current fiscal year on June 30, 2012.

Although the meeting didn't stretch into Wednesday, what it lacked in length it more than made up for in strange decisions. The agenda the majority of this council has becomes more clear after each meeting. They want to destroy the bargaining units and don't really care about how service levels may suffer in doing so. They preach "transparency" and produce the window dressing to support their claims, but where the rubber meets the road - in their official actions - they deal in subterfuge and deceit. Our city is being poorly served by this crew.

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Anonymous employee #1 said...

As an employee in a department undermanned customer service levels have dropped significantly. I personally know the present staff can't handle the work-load and many city services have fallen to the wayside. The losers in this entire City Council debacle are the citizens. I do my best to assist ; however, with lack of personnel it is impossible to do 5 jobs in 8 hours. I love civic service and will continue to work hard; however, I implore the citizens to call the City Council and let them know their concerns.

10/19/2011 05:09:00 AM  
Anonymous Think it through Steve said...

A hiring freeze will NOT bring the associations to the bargaining table. It can ONLY harm the citizens. The associations do not trust the council and I get that.

Why don't they start talking without opening up the contracts. They CAN do that.

Another blast of junk from Mensingers mouth that was NOT well thought out....surprised? NOT

ps...fewer bodies might mean more overtime...I think

10/19/2011 05:21:00 AM  
Blogger feral390 said...

So what is the non elected, chest bumping appointee trying to accomplish? Is this another expensive lawsuit in the making? Just like Moorlachs failed assault on the OC Deputies?

10/19/2011 07:22:00 AM  
Anonymous unanimous said...

great job by council last night. Bad night on Goat Hill for the usual public speaker gang along with two bizarre public commentators. don't know the clown who addressed the "board" of the city but hard to believe the audience clapped for it. what morons. who takes the time to make up such stuff, drive to city hall, read it and them go home. get a life for cryin' out loud. then folsom, while funny, said absolutely nothing of value except bring up a horrifying thought of a picnic with ridge, genis, etc.(talk about losing your appetite)- what fun that would be. great oration by righiemer on the finance audit, exposing it for the ploy it was to get us to spend our last dime on ongoing operations (eh, pensions). the unionquilters will like that leece does not embrace technology and wants the written word to prevail. brenneman wan ts "respect" and, please, no answers from council concerning her groups wild accusations. they want the last word. Tamar golman (?) is a mean lady, the evil grandmother you don't want to visit. Bever seemed the most intelligent and humorous of the council last night. good to see him back. have always thought he was the most intelligent of this and past councils. meeting was shorter by a hour or more becasue valantine and humphries did not speak on every item, same with leffler and brenneman. thank you for that. you were getting old and boring and too cranky. refreshingly little input rom the whiners. they know it's over apparently (except for ridge who is still clueless and auditioning for the next keith olberman hate speech job). genis is reduced to dog poop bags for her "dirt". what kind of
life she must lead to dig that out? There are HUGE issues her folks, 5 dollar poop bags do not need a public comment, just a phone call.

10/19/2011 07:38:00 AM  
Blogger ERIC said...

To the Daily Pilot-

“Do as I say , not as I do” is new talking point of the two-headed , snake tongued, council members – Righeimer and Mensinger. Both ranted , excessively, about the unions . How this council sees the “game” they play regarding getting council members elected and how they protect their pensions.
So lets get down to it. Mensinger virtually stood up and pounded his chest , talking about how unions and politics are wrong for America. They, the unions, get “their” people elected to get what “they” want. This coming from a GOP funded/ driven election just performed in Costa Mesa that got the head dirtbag Righeimer elected. He seems to forget Righeimer spent the most of any candidate in the history of costa mesa to win with less than 10% of the costa mesa citizens votes, and only beating out non-professional politician McEvoy by 1100 votes. All to stuff the GOP AGENDA down our throats and get his whipping boy Mensinger elected with 3 votes. Then Mr. Mensinger asked how the city could protect the city’s funds against the poor decisions of past councils and the union thugs in the future. Forgetting that Mayor Monahan(not union backed), the third stooge , voted for those past contracts. Also forgetting that it’s the UNIONS that need protecting since just over a decade ago the city took its safety personnel OUT of its self funded retirement, put the employees in PERS (without asking) and pocketed the $12+ million , never having to pay a dime of its millions of dollars in responsibilities for 7 years. Its those employees that had a case to protect what was taken from them, and its the city’s problem they stole, umm….. acquired….. that money and never saved for this rainy day. So Mr Mensinger, in your own words, DON’T PUT IT ON THE BACKS OF THE EMPLOYEES FOR THE CITY’S PAST DECISIONS AND INDISCRETIONS.
But not to be out done, the head windbag Righeimer got his two words in. Holding up the Harvey M. Rose report about the $26 million the city has hidden and called it a “farse”. A union paid scam designed to scare cities. But boy is he quick to hold the COUNCIL PAID “EXPERT” BARTEL’s words as gospel. Perhaps, Righeimer didn’t hear Mr. Bartel’s words. In-between his rhetoric of Unfunded liabilities his speech was filling with “I THINK” , “I ASSUME”, and “IN MY OPINION”. Bartel was following the council’s game plan, step by step and it he was worth every dollar the council paid him. If you remember, the CALPERS rep had a much less gloomy outlook. Righeimer continued his rant with how the city can not continue to pay these cost , otherwise we will be like Santa Ana. But its funny, Righeimer has absolutely no problem shelling out what could reach $1 million in legal fees for the year. YES , I SAID ONE MILLION DOLLARS. Add in another Half a million in “consulting / PR cost” and all Righeimer has done is spend $1.5 million EXTRA CITY DOLLARS, create hostile work environments for the employees, try to fire half the city, and basically make many lawyers happy at Christmas time.
So lets call a spade a spade. Righeimers/ Mensinger’s agenda is far more destructive to the city of Costa Mesa then the employees. At least the employee’s are willing to listen to reason, where Tweedle dee and Tweedle dumb are puppets of the Scott Baugh/ GOP and care only about themselves.

10/19/2011 07:56:00 AM  
Anonymous Not Surprised said...

Can it get any worse? I guess I already know the answer to that question. To think there are actually people who support this council majority. Why don't they just get rid of Hatch since he has no authority? Think of the money that could be saved. Mensinger wants his job so bad he can taste it.

10/19/2011 08:03:00 AM  
Anonymous Houston, we still have a math problem said...

We wanted to call attention to Rob Dimel’s response on ABLE a couple posts back. First he admits that the Righeimer trailer, the trailer that was such a divisive City issue by efforts of the Police Union in last year’s election, that the trailer was in fact parked at his house. Meaning he participated and endorse that effort. We question if things have really changed?

We think it is also important to point out that Dimel is the VP on the Police Association. So he will be intimately responsible for negotiating with the City at this time. We ask, how do you think that will go? We are now seeing that the employee contributions of their share of benefits will not continue. It was appropriate to exclude this temporary payment from budgets as proven by the Fire Association. Fire Union offered to extend payments for 3 (three) months and not the life of the contract. Perhaps they should have shown up for Bartel’s presentation?

At last night’s meeting, we saw Bobby Young take us through the audited financials. Dimel says ABLE cost is over $300k. City says $1.6M. We think Dimel’s numbers represent Voodoo math. We are therefore concerned that this thinking and math process is likely to continue under the leadership of Dimel. We think it is unlikely that the emotional anger produced by Dimel no longer flying and probably looking at being a bet cop the rest of his career clouds his judgment to the point that he will not any value in the negotiations to solve budget and pension issues.

Hopefully rank and file realize the historical mistakes and will change leadership on the Police Association to someone who is not so emotionally tied to ABLE, and is capable of performing rational math in the new reality.

10/19/2011 08:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Mary Ann O'Connell said...

I am impressed by your restraint when you say we are "poorly served." I would say this crew has completed abdicated its fiduciary responsibility to the citizens of Costa Mesa and put our health and safety in jeopardy. I can already see the lawsuits coming at us, and the bills they will rack up.

10/19/2011 08:51:00 AM  
Anonymous concerned geezer said...

gadfly ernie feeney on the senior board? what a disaster. there are enough problems at the center without her. reading her application, or her fantasy, was not good. don't be surprised to see the center closed and be another burden on the city.

10/19/2011 09:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Observations said...

Sandy Genis once had a good mind. Now she reminds me more of the eccentric lady that has lots of cats. Aside from her voice being incredibly annoying, her logic is so pretzeled, I can no longer follow it.

Speaking of annoying, how about Weathervane Wendy / 4-1 Leece. Someone forgot to hand her talking points. “I will not be supporting the motion, ah, er, when there is a motion, whatever the motion is”. Brilliant Wendy. Classic comments. Anyone else notice Wendy votes no on paying contractually obligated warrants? Appears that the only contracts and agreements Wendy is willing to honor are those of the Unions.

And How about Les “I will get back to you on that” Gogerty who looked more like he was being interrogated on World’s Dumbest Criminals. Looked to me like he did not have a clue. I would keep giving Les enough rope.

OCEA bean counter was dismantled. I am glad our City Council saw it for what it was, and did not follow the recommendations like Santa Ana.

West criticizes Council, as usual. But how can our City keep hiring into a bad Pension formula? That would not be responsible. Hatch should have had a 2 Tier in place already. Council made right choice.

Anyone else read Will Swaim tear apart Geoff West’s observations, again? Love it. West’s thinking and relationships align more with liberals.

Billy, Billy, Billy Folsom. Wow. Nuf said.

I do think many City employees do a good job. But those RFP’s are a joke. Perhaps intentionally so.

10/19/2011 09:09:00 AM  
Blogger Joe said...

Months ago, just after Huy Pham died, here and at a council meeting Mr. Valentine correctly said it looked like a hostile takeover.

For those who missed that and still feel a need to analyze this council's actions, let me repeat:

It's a hostile takeover.
Go with it or resist.

One dead, many wounded, so Righeimer can get a seat in Congress.

10/19/2011 10:01:00 AM  
Blogger Joe said...

"Anyone else read Will Swaim tear apart Geoff West’s observations"


Lobdell: On Riggy's payroll for 3K a week.

Swaim: Great friends with Lobdell.

Swaim: Starts a blog criticizing everyone who criticizes Riggy, Menssy, Bever, Monahan.

Trolls: Lookit Swaims's blog!

People of Costa Mesa and vicinity:
"Sound of crickets chirping", 2 comments per piece average on Swaim's blog.

Conclusion: "Transparency" is catching on.

10/19/2011 10:08:00 AM  
Anonymous Barry P. said...

Why do all other Cities in OC have seond tiers for new hires but us? Why won't our unions agree to what every other City and its union have agreed to?

Why won't Fire agree to continue paying THEIR portion of their retirement? What a bad message that sends to the residents about their interest in being part of the solution.

All I took out of this recap is that the unions continue to live in lala land where the economy is not crumbling. This will not go over well with the average resident.

10/19/2011 10:27:00 AM  
Anonymous e said...

I don't trust Les Gogerty. In my dealings with him I find he is a liar.

10/19/2011 10:52:00 AM  
Anonymous C'mon Man!!! said...

@Barry P.

"Why do all other Cities in OC have seond tiers for new hires but us? Why won't our unions agree to what every other City and its union have agreed to?"

Who said the employees would not agree to a two-tier system. I believe several comments on here have stated the Police Association offered a two tier last negotiations and it was turned down by the city council.

Barry, I know you believe everything the city council says and wants to jump on the band wagon of hating public employees but at least report the truth.

C'mon Man!!!

10/19/2011 11:11:00 AM  
Anonymous Daisy Mae said...

BarryP, please get all the facts before you post here. I also know that the general employees and the managers also agreed to a two-tier pension plan and that the general employees and managers already pay the majority of their pension obligation and will continue to do so. The reason the two-tier was not implemented is that it required a new contract with CALPERS and for some reason the City did not implement it. Why don't you ask Tom Hatch that question. All the council has to do is wait until the contracts expire and they can renegotiate at that time. Another reason the Council does not want to hire additional employees is so that the salary savings from having unfilled positions will pay for all the legal fees and other expenditures. You have to read between the lines with the Council majority. They are not being truthful, but yet people continue to support them. Do you really think they are thinking of residents when they make these decisions?

10/19/2011 11:32:00 AM  
Blogger feral390 said...

Oh are indeed a simple minded one. Our corrupt council DOES NOT care about a second tier, they want complete destruction of all employee bargaining units and the publicity that goes along with it or the total elimination of ALL city employees and the publicity that goes with that. Solving a budget problem (fake or real) was never the priority, if it was why didn't the corrupt 4 try and open negotiations months ago? because their chainsaw surgery approach would gather much more media coverage and encourage dullards such as yourself to join the "I hate government workers" bandwagon. These clowns have accomplished nothing in the few months since their hostile takeover of our city. Unless you are a lawyer or a pop warner booster, they seem to be the only ones profiting.

10/19/2011 11:38:00 AM  
Anonymous Wake up call said...

Well, folks - there you have it. Police and Fire want to keep theirs, screw everyone else.


10/19/2011 11:42:00 AM  
Anonymous Recall Riggy and Mensinger said...

Barry, tell Riggy and Mensinger to write you a little better post...

I know facts always get in the way of your post put "every" other city in the county have a 2 tier system is completely false. Some do and some don't. And in fact most of the employee groups for costa mesa are willing to have one, BUT THE "FAT BALDING ONE" AND HIS SIDEKICK "SUPPORTED BY MY WIFE" want the tier system on THEIR TERMS. Why should the employees have to bend over and say -thank you sir , may I have another. The scumbucket Riggy wants a 2 tier system but refuses to give one concession to the employees. He wants them to give up RETIREMENT, TAKE THEIR MEDICAL BENIFITS, TAKE A 30%+ PAYCUT.... OH AND REDUCE STAFFING BY HALF. GEE that sounds fair, can't understand why the employee groups wouldn't want to negotiate with them. Hell, Fat Bastard Riggy probably would make all employees less paid then McDonald's if he could. So, Barry , when Riggy and Mensinger are done tag teaming you, maybe you should get THEIR stories straight.

10/19/2011 11:45:00 AM  
Anonymous C'mon Man!!! said...

@Wake up Call

"Well, folks - there you have it. Police and Fire want to keep theirs, screw everyone else.


Its great when well thought out, educated, and insightful posts full of facts are presented in defense of the city council.

Its sad when these people are in favor of Righeimer's decisions. Well maybe not, I don't expect more!

C'mon Man!!!

10/19/2011 12:05:00 PM  
Anonymous RobG said...

Fires 5% is due up in November. We offered to extend it for 3 months to allow the City to get thru the RFP process. We are still waiting for an answer on the OC RFP. We are also waiting for an answer on a language issue regarding demotions, as the current city policy we fall under isnt applicable to our work/promotion process. A non-cost item that they cant decide on. We are also waiting on a fact-check for the false OC Register article on Workmans answer. So the question do you negotiate with people that dont answer your questions. Oh, and they havent asked us for a two-tier system!
Negotiating is about give and take..and all they want to do is take.
people need to remember that the City forced the employees into PERS in 1988 because they wanted out of the retirement business. They kept the $12 million that was in the employees retirement accounts at that time. Also, when PERS was superfunded, the city didnt make a payment to PERS for 13 years..they didnt have to make the payment and they were able to keep the employee portion. When we asked them last year in negotiations where all that money was that they should have been saving they said "we dont know."
And now they blame the employees. Thats like me not making my housepayments and getting kicked out and then looking at my kids and saying "well...its your fault!"

10/19/2011 12:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Barry Who? said...

Here are the real ABLE budgetary numbers and they are not even close to what the puppeteers would like you to think. The numbers don't lie.

ABLE made a proposal (Included in the link above) to supply service at 307K a year for two years.

Prior to the cuts, ABLE was ready to respond for 18 hours a day 365 days a year. ABLE averaged 3000 flight hours and handled well over 5000 calls for service per year!

But don't listen to what I say, Barry will tell you how great the Huntington Beach Helicopter is. What does Barry do for a living besides kiss Riggy's a$$?

10/19/2011 01:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Indefensible said...

1988 was 23 years ago, and what happened then is not relevant today. If you want to talk about what the council did then, why don't we go back to the way it was and get out of PERS?

Why don't we go back to 1998, before the 3%@50 scheme was conceived?

You can keep going over ancient history all you want, the reality is that times have changed, and so must the MOUs.

With the OCFA deal pending, Fire has a point extending the existing agreement a few months.

Police, on the other hand, does not. Refusing to extend the current agreement clearly shows that the CMPOA could care less about the Costa Mesa "family." All the conciliatory talk here and elsewhere by was just that - talk.

Remember - next time Rob Dimel posts here - he formally turned down the City's request that CMPOA members continue paying less than half of the EMPLOYEE portion of their own pension contributions. This will cost the City as much as $250,000 a month.

It is an indefensible position, I can't wait to see him try to spin it.

10/19/2011 02:48:00 PM  
Anonymous Change seats on Titanic said...

Thanks Barry Who? These numbers plus the comments from Bobby last night help me understand that Dimel’s numbers are way off.

Spoken like a true Cop with a math problem “ABLE made a proposal (Included in the link above) to supply service at 307K a year for two years.”

That is like me making a statement that “I can offer my services to the City for free over the next two years”. Which would be true as long as I tapped into the equity of your house.

This presents a major concern. Rob Dimel is the VP of the Costa Mesa Police Association and is responsible for negotiating with the City on behalf of the Police. I think Dimel’s math is horrible and his actions during last year’s campaign display a pattern of bad faith. Even self perceived honerable men make horrible decisions. Just ask Geoff West.

If progress is to be made the representation needs to change and not on the side of the Council.

10/19/2011 03:07:00 PM  
Anonymous Sad but True said...

Geoff West is clearly getting older and more angry. But the saddest part might be that with that, he may also be losing interest in kids. Families are the lifeblood of any community.

City Staff takes time during CEO's comments to share exciting news about securing $1.6 million on Safe Routes to School funding. Great news for our City and great for out kids.

But West leaves that out. West chooses instead to focus on aspects of emotion.


10/19/2011 04:46:00 PM  
Anonymous CM is burning down said...

The police have already saved the city millions of dollars. Add to those numbers the salaries that are not being paid to the, what is it, 15 officers that have left now, and it becomes obvious that the police are doing more work, with fewer people, and therefore deserve a pay raise.

Open contracts? Would you enter into a negotiation with a Stalin-esq regime? I sure wouldn't. Nor should any city employee group. That would just be stupid.

Call it what it is, there is no negotiation in this negotiation, it is the council clear cutting the land of employees, pure and simple.

10/19/2011 05:04:00 PM  
Anonymous Other Mike said...

I don't know why everyone keeps saying that the CM POA has refused anything. That I know of, and from what was said at council, they have not even responded to the city's request yet. So how have they refused to help? Can anyone here show where they have responded and declined to negotiate? From what I heard and saw it was the Police Management Association that has so far responded with "no thank you".

As far as Dimel being the VP, so what? Again, he has come on here using his name posting factual information. Amazing how that has drawn more responses than usual. It must mean he is hitting a nerve. Could it actually be that he is right? If Titanic understood the budget and what that link posted earlier spells out, it seems to indicate he is spot on. That comes directly from the city. Thank God for transparency, right?

West can go on and on and he gets the usual attacks. But when an employee versed on the issues and not beholding to the council disputes their "facts", stand by! The trolls come out in force. Classic circle the wagons tactic to defend the indefensible.

10/19/2011 05:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Show us the Money said...

OK other Mike We’ll bite. How can you operate ABLE at a cost in the $300k range? Can you show us the math? Lay it out for us in a quick line item fashion. What are the salaries, benefits, rent, maintenance, insurance, gas. We would think the cost would quickly hit that number quickly for one pilot.

We are open to a fact based discussion. Lay it out for us in simple terms with specific numbers of how you get to around $300k.

Can I also ask why there are no rumblings from Newport Beach? Not at the time of decision nor continued? Why is it that? Are their costs different? Is there safety any less of a concern?

We do think having Dimel negotiate is a big issue. Time will tell what type of a response will be given. All we have heard is about historical efforts, and what can be done on the ballot of November 2012 We are focused on the reality of now.

10/19/2011 08:06:00 PM  
Anonymous rumble said...

No rumblings in Newport? Can you seriously say that with a straight face? Get a clue.

10/19/2011 09:36:00 PM  
Anonymous Other Mike said...

Show us-

If you follow that link someone posted, it shows you the money. Why are you looking for someone to spoon feed you? According to what I have read there (link) and here, that 300k is all what you asked; rent, gas, maintenance etc. That is Costa Mesa's share of the operational budget, not the total budget. Personnel are not included in that, but do they not get paid if they are in a car? So either way we have that cost it seems.

As far as Newport goes, I don't know what that city's response has been. I haven't followed what is happening there. I do seem to recall there was a Newport businessman willing to pay the cost of the ABLe program but he was turned down on his offer. So, I suppose they were concerned about it.

10/19/2011 10:44:00 PM  
Anonymous Bingo. Facts sink ship said...

Other Mike. Perfect. This is why we want Dimel to speak in specifics.

You and he are comparing a fully loaded cost in HB helicopter, including the body that flies the helo, etc. To ABLE, with only M&O. That is an Apple & a Pumpkin comparison.

Hence the math concern where Dimel will be negotiation with the basis of bias and flawed logic.
This whole outsourcing and decisions like ABLE can only realize the savings from changing bodies. Your logic fails when you state that the bodies in ABLE become incremental.

We believe, either through lay off , attrition, employees choose other jobs , get hired by the outsource company, etc.

Newport Beach is doing this. Costa Mesa is still only studying.

Hope you see why talking in specifics is necessary to avoid Apple & Pumpkins or emotional discussions.

10/20/2011 09:00:00 AM  
Anonymous red delicious said...

Bingo, this is not comparing an apple to a pumpkin, it is comparing a flying apple to a driving apple. The apple is the same apple whether it is on the ground or getting paid. It costs the same and is in the same apple orchard regardless- that is of course the apple goes to Newport for a bit to visit Granny Smith, or is flying over Santa Ana to visit the Gala Apple. And don't think for a second you aren't paying for the salary of the Huntington Beach flying apple. You pay a percentage that is equal to the amount of time that apple spends in the fruit bin it doesn't belong. Simple apple mathematics and economic taught by the grapple- the sweetest apple of them all.

10/21/2011 02:01:00 AM  
Anonymous Michael Gibson III said...

Change seats on Titanic

Sad but True

Show us the Money

Bingo. Facts sink ship


Wake up call



Houston, we still have a math problem


Your fascination with Dimel is astounding.

Man crush?

Who is "WE"?

10/21/2011 12:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Tortured Logic said...

Red delicious. Now I get it. Your math & Dimel's math make the Apple & pumpkin assumption that the body is constant. In my logic, if you change the helicopter, then you remove the body from head count. To move the body from the helicopter to a patrol car is duplication.

The money is saved when you eliminate the body. Math not possible in public safety.

10/23/2011 08:26:00 AM  
Anonymous What happened? said...

Geoff: You used to have an entry from the last CC meeting where you mentioned Wendy Leece's ex parte request. Did you take it down? If not, what date was that entry? Thanks.

10/25/2011 09:35:00 PM  
Blogger The Pot Stirrer said...

What happened, check the entry of 9/21/11, scroll down to the number 4. I think that's what you're looking for.

10/25/2011 11:52:00 PM  

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