Saturday, April 26, 2008

Another Anti-Foley Diatribe

A local blogger, who is intent on slamming Costa Mesa Councilwoman Katrina Foley at every turn, has recently posted another jab at her, this time embedded in a critical diatribe about the activist organization, AirFair. A
s some may know, AirFair's role in life it to protect us from the expansion of John Wayne Airport - or whatever the official name is of that place that directs airplanes nearly over my house all day, every day. There's a link to that organization over on the right side of this page.

The entry
in question postulates that there is something sinister going on because AirFair seems to be supporting one Costa Mesa council member over others. Apparently, the author of the blog feels there is something suspicious about AirFair's support of Foley in her re-election bid and states flatly that "the airport issue is non-partisan and should remain that way."

I agree - the airport issue is, and should be, a non-partisan issue. However, AirFair is
certainly free to support council members who have demonstrated to them unwavering support for their goal of blocking any further expansion at John Wayne. Foley apparently meets that standard.


The City of Costa Mesa has an abysmal history when it comes to fighting against expansion of John Wayne.
A few years ago, when Libby Cowan was mayor, we missed a tremendous opportunity to rally in support of the use of El Toro as the logical choice to meet the growing demand for air transportation. I've said before, I thought Libby was trying to protect her job with the City of Irvine when she not only didn't provide leadership on the issue, but blocked every move proposed.


Now the demand remains but the perfect solution is gone and all we hear about these days is the impending demise of the agreement that currently restricts traffic at John Wayne and feeble mutterings about using surface transport to move travelers and cargo to outlying airports in the Inland Empire to quench the demand. Good luck with that!

At least the rants by those proposing a triple tunnel under Saddleback Peak to an airport on the other side of the mountain have died out - as has their web site. They were so darn passionate about that fiasco that I suspect they may have just, appropriately, gone underground and are continuing to work on it in the dark.

If Katrina Foley is, in fact, eager to lead the charge against further John Wayne Airport expansion, that gives us yet another reason among many to support her candidacy for re-election. An even better reason, however, is that she recognizes that blog author for what he is and doesn't take any of his guff. Unlike others on the council, she can't be controlled by that guy - as good a reason as any to vote for her in November.

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Anonymous Anonymous said...

yet he wasnt suspicious of mansewer's out of town support to raise money for his campaign since he couldnt raise enough from the local residents of costa mesa. Or his funding that came from racist groups like the so called minute men.
this "other" blogger is a clown in every shape of the word, sorry for the blast but he's a scared sad little mind.

4/26/2008 09:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

ps, it's also very obvious why he wont accept comments on his blog, he couldnt deal with people pointing out his consistently inaccurate diatribes .

4/26/2008 09:30:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We should support Air Fair and expanded use of Long Beach, as well the feasible and smart options of better transportation links to Ontario, as well as development of March AFB. The local blogger's campaign for an airport at Camp Pendleton is a laughable farce. He is so wrong in so many ways about an airport there!

Instead of improving access via light rail or other feasible ways of getting to Ontario and March (two huge, under-utilized airports), he thinks that increasing the already extremely heavy traffic load on the 5, while constructing a new international airport out of thin air on the Marine Corps' main West Coast base is a better plan. Unbelievable! I can tell you now, for a fact, that will NEVER happen.

As for El Toro, I fought that hard and will continue to do so. With all due respect, Geoff, the vicious campaign to foist pollution, traffic and noise on our neighbors to the south was embarassing and beneath us. We have had to deal with the noise and pollution, so instead of finding other solutions, we go all-out to inflict 4 times that noise and pollution on South County folks? Nice.

El Toro was an awful plan. It would have ruined all of our quality of life. The increased traffic and noise alone, not to mention the air pollution, would have impacted ALL of us negatively. I'm still amazed by the vitriol and short-sightedness of those in the Newport-Mesa community who were so strongly for an international airport at El Toro. Ever taken a whiff while driving the 405 by LAX on a hot summer day? That would have been all of South and Central OC. El Toro is not that far away.

4/27/2008 11:05:00 AM  
Blogger The Pot Stirrer said...

rob, once again we find an issue on which we differ. The conversion of El Toro was a no-brainer... the primary, expensive infrastructure was in place and there was PLENTY of room around the actual footprint of any iteration of an intercontinental airport to keep the existing residential areas comfortable. The military jets flying around there were much more noisy than any commercial air traffic would be. It was the perfect solution to the problem. Now, with expansion of John Wayne as the only real alternative, it's going to be hell for the folks under the current flight paths. If nothing substantive is done to find a way to bleed off some of the traffic we will see aggressive expansion and increased flights, which will make Eastside Costa Mesa and the whole Dover Shores area of Newport Beach virtually unlivable. It was a matter of sharing the burden... El Toro could have become the airport we need for the next half-century.

I'm not so sure the blogger isn't onto something with his Camp Pendleton proposal. Actually, it was my proposal before he first wrote about it, but I'm willing to share. Not only would that resolve our "John Wayne" problem, but would also solve San Diego's Lindbergh Field issue, too. A significant airport located at the north end of Camp Pendleton could permit both John Wayne and Lindbergh field to reduce air traffic and become commuter venues.

In the meantime, the clock is ticking on the John Wayne agreement - time flies when you're having fun.

4/27/2008 01:13:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Geoff, we will agree to disagree on El Toro. The key issue you and most supporters of an airport at El Toro fail to take into consideration was the frequency and volume of takeoffs and landings. The configuration was NOT right as is. I spent a lot of time at El Toro when it was an active base, and it was never, ever even close to as busy as a major international airport would be. I was there when they did the noise testing, and the assertions that it would not have impacted surrounding residents were speculative at best.

As for Camp Pendleton, it is an active Marine Corps combat training base. Period, end of discussion. I'm not being arrogant or disrespectful, just realistic. Marine aviation and amphibious training take absolute priority. Those activities would be drastically impacted by civilian air traffic control and heavy commercial use. Any commercial airport on any portion of Camp Pendleton would negatively impact the Marines.

Marine Corps compatibility aside, I don't think that Camp Pendleton is a good location for an airport. The 5 is already built out, and gridlocked both north and south of Oceanside every single day. Curiously, the distance between central OC and Camp Pendleton and Ontario is virtually the same, which Camp Pendleton proponents conveniently fail to mention.

Finally, I have been stationed at Camp Pendleton, and know first hand that the topography is not favorable to an airport. The infrastructure is non-existent. It literally makes no sense to spend billions creating an international airport out of thin air in a totally inappropriate location with inadequate transportation infrastructure. Ontario and March are operating airports with existing infrastructure. We should focus on utilizing those.

Of course, this is a hotly debated issue, and my opinions are my own. Thanks for the venue to air them out!

You are absolutely right about John wayne, we need to remain vigilant and work with Newport to present a united front to oppose any expansion.

4/27/2008 05:37:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I had an interesting conversation with a local airport official. He tells me that Pendleton has almost zero acceptable locations for an airport without flattening a hilltop. Get that one through the costal commission. He points out that the takeoff and landing directions for El Toro were grossly misrepresented by both sides as almost all takeoff’s would have been toward UCI. Short of reversing the El Toro debacle, his opinion is that better transportation to and from other regional airports such as Ontario is the only solution to growth in Orange County.

4/28/2008 01:32:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rob Dickson wrote:

We should support Air Fair and expanded use of Long Beach...

As for El Toro, ......the vicious campaign to foist pollution, traffic and noise on our neighbors to the south was embarassing and beneath us. instead of finding other solutions, we go all-out to inflict 4 times that noise and pollution on South County folks? Nice.

So let me get this straight, you oppose El Toro because of the "impacts" on South County yet you would throw West Orange County under the bus by expanding Long Beach Airport. You are probably ignorant enough to think LGB would ONLY impact the 3rd class riff raff of L.A. County! Nice!

BTW, many of those homes near LGB were built BEFORE the airport was placed there. This cannot be said about El Toro or John Wayne. (I have copies of topo maps from the 1950s that prove this!)

Also I should mention that I am a former Huntington Beach resident and can attest that LGB approaches go over that city along with Seal Beach. Keep on pushing for LGB expansion and HB alone has enough registered voters (100,000+) to qualify a county wide petition for a vote to "re-examine" the current caps at John Wayne.

In the meantime, you probably thought you could simply throw the people of Long Beach (in L.A. County) under the bus with no possibility of repercussions.

As for El Toro, I will say the County Plan was grossly flawed which consisted of southern approaches over DP, LN, AV, LH, and LW. Then the eastern takeoffs would have gone over LF, MV, and RSM.
That was the ONLY PLAN The Irvine Company was publicly "neutral" on!

The spineless BOS did not have the balls to do El Toro THE RIGHT WAY.
Also, AWG is guilty of blindly embracing the county plan and trying to crush dissenting views such as those from The New Millenium Group.

Check out
(This would have passed had this layout been on the ballot!)

The pilots plan or the V plan would have had approaches come from the north (no homes) and then a takeoff to the south with a 30 degree bank over a 3 mile home free swath of land towards the coast. The Pilots unions favored this plan as well.

But TIC threatened to spend 2 million to fight it if the BOS placed it on the ballot. BTW, thank Jim Silva for not being the 3rd needed vote to make that happen. It was more important to be able to run for assembly than to come up with a non-invasive airport.

The Irvine Co opposed the pilot's plan for El Toro BECAUSE they wanted to and are now shoehorning in thousands of homes to the former buffer zone. (Never mind the real estate market has gone to hell, so all they got for their troubles was a giant mine of fool's gold!)

go to
and do a search on
to read about the corruption of Chris Cox and The Irvine Co.

There are only 3 REAL reasons people oppose El Toro in the V plan/Pilot's Plan configuration.

1) Appease The Irvine Co. who wants to pave the buffer zone.

2) They are vindictive South County NIMBYs who want to DENY a reliever airport for John Wayne in order to stick it to Newport Beach. (EVERY ONE I have talked to that opposes even the pilots' plan has ALSO stated they favor removing the caps on JWA.)

3)They want to keep the land in the hands of the corrupt Agran led Great Park board so that the status quo of no bid contracts and secrecy is maintained.

-Rex Ricks
former HB Resident

5/02/2008 01:17:00 AM  
Blogger The Pot Stirrer said...

Rex Ricks, Please note my rule about no "Anonymous" posts... make up a name or just use yours. Since you signed it I published it this time around.

As a supporter of "the" airport at El Toro, I cannot help but smile when I think of the difficulties the Emperor Agran and his mob are having with the "Great Park". Serves them right!

Airports are contentious issues wherever they end up. Everyone wants convenient air service - no one wants the airport next door. That's what made El Toro the perfect site - it could have been developed with all the negative issues mitigated - and easily, too.

Thanks for participating. Please use your name or a pen name for future entries.

5/02/2008 09:02:00 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Rex, it isn't about throwing people under the bus, it is about filghts per day to help with regional air transportation needs. You are literally hilarious with this characterization of LGB - simply because you so forcefully support an airport at El Toro. Wherever a single additional flight happens, someone is impacted. LGB, SNA, El Toro, whatever.

You can't have it both ways, and my opposition to El Toro has nothing to do with any of your 3 listed reasons.

I love how you characterize opponents of El Toro as "vindictive South County NIMBYs" yet folks in Long Beach, Huntington Beach and Newport AREN'T? Get real.

5/07/2008 03:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


the hated county plan was the ONLY option the esteemed BOS would consider. So I can see why there was intense opposition to El Toro.

The pilots plan which I went into great detail about would have AVOIDED HOMES! The BOS would not put that option on the table because The Irvine Co. told them not to. TIC wanted to pave those open spaces.

I can very well see why you would loathe the county plan. I would too if I lived in those impacted areas.

However, the "pilot's plan" would NOT go over any homes.

There are those who would oppose even that layout for one of the 3 reasons I listed. A person is a vindictive NIMBY when oppose the pilot's plan AND they simultaneously favor expansion of JWA. Much of the El Toro opposition is rooted in deep scathing hatred of Newport Beach.

If you oppose the "pilot's plan" for El Toro AND you favor expansion of LGB, that shows you would rather send jets over EXISTING HOMES versus open space.

In fact, why don't you look at these two satellite photos and see for yourself.

LGB is totally boxed in with homes.

Now Look at El Toro, especially all that open space to the Southwest where jets could go over NO HOMES!

-Rex Ricks

5/12/2008 03:02:00 AM  

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