Imported Shill Speaks Out
AND ON, AND ON, AND ON...
Monday's Public Hearing on Jim Righeimer's Charter is a gift that just keeps on giving.
DAYTON IN THE DAILY PILOT
Today, imported shill Kevin Dayton - the guy who almost incited a riot - produced a commentary that is published online in the Daily Pilot, HERE, and will also appear sometime in the next couple days in print, according to the editors.
I AGREE WITH HIS LAST PARAGRAPH
I think clarity would b
e best served if you read his commentary yourself rather than me being accused of trying to spin anything he wrote - even though much of it is ripe for spinning. I will say, though, that I agree 100% with his final paragraph:
"To the Costa Mesa police force: Thank you for your professionalism during the "near riot." You balanced the rights of the people with the need to restore order. The city should be proud of you."
CMPD STAFF WERE REAL PROS
We SHOULD be proud of the officers in the auditorium that night because they displayed professionalism and restraint in a situation that could have gotten very nasty.
AFTER YOU READ IT, WATCH HIM AGAIN...
So, after you read Dayton's epistle, take 9 minutes again to watch him in
action at the council meeting Monday night. Pay particular attention to the last few seconds of this clip. What you don't see is his antagonistic posturing as he approached his seat. He looked EXACTLY like the critter in the image I've provided for your viewing pleasure. Clearly, this is probably not the last we've heard from him as he pontificates on issues in which he has no vested interest from the safety of his bunker in Sacramento.
Monday's Public Hearing on Jim Righeimer's Charter is a gift that just keeps on giving.DAYTON IN THE DAILY PILOT
Today, imported shill Kevin Dayton - the guy who almost incited a riot - produced a commentary that is published online in the Daily Pilot, HERE, and will also appear sometime in the next couple days in print, according to the editors.
I AGREE WITH HIS LAST PARAGRAPH
I think clarity would b
e best served if you read his commentary yourself rather than me being accused of trying to spin anything he wrote - even though much of it is ripe for spinning. I will say, though, that I agree 100% with his final paragraph:"To the Costa Mesa police force: Thank you for your professionalism during the "near riot." You balanced the rights of the people with the need to restore order. The city should be proud of you."
CMPD STAFF WERE REAL PROS
We SHOULD be proud of the officers in the auditorium that night because they displayed professionalism and restraint in a situation that could have gotten very nasty.
AFTER YOU READ IT, WATCH HIM AGAIN...
So, after you read Dayton's epistle, take 9 minutes again to watch him in
action at the council meeting Monday night. Pay particular attention to the last few seconds of this clip. What you don't see is his antagonistic posturing as he approached his seat. He looked EXACTLY like the critter in the image I've provided for your viewing pleasure. Clearly, this is probably not the last we've heard from him as he pontificates on issues in which he has no vested interest from the safety of his bunker in Sacramento.Labels: Charter City, Jim Righeimer, Kevin Dayton
posted by The Pot Stirrer at 2/16/2012 04:51:00 PM
48 Comments:
What about the other "imported shills" that constantly try to take control of this City- the out of town unions speaking out against paying prevailing wages for public works, the Irvine PD, the La Habra PD, the OC employees union, all of whom contributed big bucks to defeat a City Councilmember in the 2010 race. No mention of them in this article. I'm not surprised.
Imported shill, Geoff? Like the imported union shills? The ones from everywhere but Costa Mesa, telling us what to put in our charter?
I anxiously await your expose on them, Geoff.
It was also disturbing that our mayor did not attend and there were extra police officers on hand which did not exactly set the right tone. Also the meeting began without the Pledge of Allegiance but with a reading of the city code of conduct at the meetings. Ironic because it was our own mayor pro-tem who intentionally allowed Mr. Payne to speak beyond the time limit. I think it was very reckless of mayor and mayor pro-tem to intend to stir up trouble and potentially endanger the innocent citizens, and there were many of us, in attendance.
Barry, the difference between all those groups you listed and this nut-job, is that these groups are respected and important groups that do good for the areas and people that they serve.
This guy was't only an imported shill, he was an imported nut-job not from Sacramento, but from Fairview Hospital.
No on the Charter!!!
i found the shill entertaining and the crowd reaction to him telling. yes, he spoke too long but the "other side" has dominated total minutes for over a year now so it was due. He seems very intelligent but it was a little hard to follow so I think it should have been written out and submitted. Another expert like sandy genis but without that nauseous tone and cadence. All in all, glad he came. We had just finished the kabobs and needed to open another bottle of wine so the break that was called was good timing for us. When the show resumed we were a little disappointed that things had calmed down. You should have seen the whackos take over the NB city council special Thursday meeting last week. Our show was lame in comparison but at least this shill saved the day somewhat.
I too am very proud of our CMP officers and the residents who did not take the bait from this instigator. He was egging us on and proudly proclaimed he "provoked a near riot". I question his mental stability.
I was not in attendance nor have had time to do anyting but read the newspaper and your blogs, and the responses and facebook posting. How can anyone judge others and accuse them of affiliations without having proof that is who they represent, are members of, or live whereevver/????? I am so tired of the BS and the 4 member council with Riggy at command, telling US what we want and telling US what is good for us when he does not represent the majority, no have all our votes, nor voted for him and most of us have far more "senority" in this city then he can begin to count.
Why does "Barry"/"majority" keep flooding this blog instead of his own?
That guy was an embarrassment. If council had anything to do with this guy coming here and speaking what a huge backfire that was and they should also be embarrassed.
I was also a tad unsettled by the other side but Righeimer never should have approved that much extra time. It was outright unfair to the numerous residents who speak on both sides every week.
And majority said... to try and justify allowing this guy to speak longer because the majority of the speakers are against the charter as it is being presented shows more about you I guess.
Did Righeimer and Mensinger refer to Righeimer as the Mayor a few times? I know Monahan was absent but isn't Righeimer still Mayor Pro Tem? Or has the thrown already been abdicated?
Oceanside Council Member Kern follows the philosophy of the ABC and probably this Dayton Fellow and look what happens.
They include in the Ocenaside rushed charter what looks like prohibition of Public Labor Agreements.
The state then creates a bill SB922 that if passed would take away funding to any charter city that passes as part of their charter a Prohibition of Labor Agreements.
Oceanside panics, rightly so, at losing state money for their projects. Council member Kern so concerned has to fly to Sacramento to speak against the bill.
The bill passes and Kern writes "We residents of Oceanside will be depending on the common sense of Gov. Jerry Brown, his understanding of the proper relationship of state government to local government, and his respect for the rights and the will of local people to govern their own local affairs. The proper response of a statesman-governor to this bill would be a quick veto."
Pretty scary stuff for Oceanside after they rammed through their charter.
But what I find hypocritical is the Council Member from Oceanside almost crying about how unfair it is that these bills get RAILROADED through without "ADEQUATE HEARINGS" or "PUBLIC SCRUTINY". Yes he really said that.
"I was told that the state legislative leadership has recently made a habit of gutting and amending bills at the last minute to help certain favored special-interest groups. These bills then get railroaded through the legislative process without adequate hearings or public scrutiny."
The Governor didn't veto the bill but happily for Oceanside for now they will keep their state funding dollars coming because it has been stated that the wording of the Oceanside Charter doesn't actually ban PLA's.
They dodged what would have been a costly bullet this time but it must have been pretty unsettling to Oceanside residents.
Who knows what is going to happen with the prevailing wage issue that is before the State Supreme Court.
Mr. Dayton in this article specifically claims Oceanside passed what would have been cause to lose their state project funding. But luckily for Oceanside the wording in their charter is now seen to not actually prohibit PLA's.
http://www.flashreport.org/blog/2011/09/06/kevin-dayton-construction-unions-set-up-state-legislature-to-crush-fair-and-open-competition-policies-at-local-governments/
Does anyone remember when this city was somewhat normal ?
Anxious Barry - We have video proof here of an outside shill for the Charter, in colusion with the Mayor Pro Term. Yet you have no proof of outside union shills. And if you do, then please present it. Quit projecting your lewd and unsavory tactics onto whatever side you think is against you (which in this case is the majority of CM citizens).
Charterhawk,
Do you support state legislation that mandates that construction projects go to unions?
Colin,
Are you serious? Why are you commenting on a meeting and an issue if you were not there? Because if you had been there you would have seen and heard the regional union representatives telling us what we should have in our charter. They showed up at previous meetings as well. Obviously, you have not been to a single one of these meetings, so you could not know that.
If, on the other hand, you had been to these meetings, did you step out to use the restroom at precisely the time the out of town union shills spoke?
That really is the only possible explanation - except of course, you might just be lying and deliberately misrepresenting the facts.
Really?, It looks to me that Charterhawk is just pointing out issues that is one of the main tenants of Righeimer's charter. Informing the voters of all pressing legislation, whether you agree or not, is the right thing to do.
The following intriguing comment from a friend landed in my inbox shortly after the February 13 meeting. At first I didn’t give it much thought. As I dug deeper, I found out Mr. Dayton is actually a lobbyist for the Associated Builders and Contractors, and that Mr. Dayton and his counterparts with the ABC go from city to city with what amounts to a traveling road show. I think the information has enough merit that it needs to be part of the public discussion. You read, you decide.
“Hi all
I think we have all been had! The Council Uprising was all staged. Both the speaker that was "intimidated" by the 'union thugs" and the "union thugs" were not real. I had noted them standing around in clumps when I arrived, and noted that none of them looked familiar. This was a planned event and everyone fell for it Interesting that this speaker knew to ask for additional time as he was speaking for a group, not done in the last year and a half that I can recall, and interesting that the inciting speaker walked into the center of the room (center aisle, half way between the exit door and the dais) to continue his incitement, but not one person touched anyone, that could have provoked an arrest by the PD. Interesting that Righeimer read the policy on disrupting the meeting at the start of the meeting. (But omitted the flag salute) Interesting that after the incident, Righeimer offered extra time back to the opposition in a very amiable manner. Interesting that everyone of the unknowns left at the same time with not one of the "union thugs" remaining, except those who were CM residents which I have seen before. This was planned by someone above Righeimer--just food for thought.” (Name Withheld)
When I (Robin) replayed the video clip Geoff embedded, I noticed Kevin Dayton did not seem surprised at the first wave of noise. He paused before the second, like an actor overacting a staged scene. When Mr Dayton finally finished his presentation, his shouts of “Fascism” had a very canned ring to my ears. I was at the Costa Mesans for Responsible Government table on the front porch most of the time. What I saw first hand were some folks I assumed were with the trade unions, who greeted each other and hung out together on the porch. Many of them came by our table and introduced themselves as Costa Mesa residents. I saw others who were dressed similarly, but didn’t seem to be with the other guys. I wondered who they were. There was a knot of people around representatives for ABC and their affiliated groups who all went in together and seemed to disperse themselves among the audience. I sent the intriguing message to a source that works with some of the union groups to see what they knew:
“Very accurate assessment - it was staged by Righeimer. Riggie brought in Dayton with his made up 'institute' to pick a fight. I know the majority of the building trades guys and hang out with them. They discourage their members from getting into loud fights with Dayton's crowd because they know it will be misused. I loved it when Sandy made up her own institute! When Dayton screamed "Fascism!" he was trying to get some one to start a fist fight, in my opinion. Those are fighting words and really didn't fit anywhere into the conversation. He said them to get people's blood boiling. Always remember Dayton is a lobbyist for a questionable cause.” (Name also withheld)
I formed my opinion from what I saw and heard. I’m putting it out here, like my friend said, as “Food for thought”
Robin Leffler
Thanks, Robin. And, in case you wonder if Monday's meeting was orchestrated, a guy named Eric Christen also spoke in favor of the Charter. He also commented on Dayton's Daily Pilot piece. He's just another IMPORTED SHILL.
Here's his bio from the Coalition for Fair Employment in Construction (CFEC) where he is Executive Director:
A native of Oregon, Eric graduated Cum Laude from Corban University in 1991 with a degree in History and teaching certificate. After graduating Eric taught and coached for four years in the Oregon public school system. In 1995 Eric moved into the world of politics working for a U.S. Congressional candidate, Oregon State Representative, and on two California state-wide initiatives. In 1999 Eric was hired as the Executive Director of the Coalition for Fair Employment in Construction, and has been dedicated to ensuring freedom and open competition in the California construction industry ever since. Eric has helped to create regional coalitions to more effectively fight PLAs at the grassroots level and was instrumental in helping to pass a first-of-its-kind ordinance banning PLAs in the City of Fresno in 2000 and Orange County in 2009. In 2010 additional PLA bans were put into effect in San Diego County, the cities of Chula Vista and Oceanside, the Palmdale Water District, and Placer County. Eric’s work has led to the defeat of dozens of PLAs throughout the state since 1999. In 2002, Eric was named as one of the 40 under 40 by the East Bay Business Times, a recognition given to young professionals making an impact in California. Eric’s writings have been featured in numerous publications including the San Diego Union Tribune, Sacramento Bee, Orange County Register, San Francisco Chronicle, and the Riverside Press Enterprise. Eric has been featured in the New York Times, Wall Street Journal, and on National Public Radio. Eric is married to Major Karyn Lynn Christen, a United States Air Force Pilot and graduate of the United States Air Force Academy. He and Karyn live in California with their three children, Damian, Sophia, and Gabriel.
Not there or just lying? said...
So we have many union reps adding things they want in the charter, as opposed to one man (Jim R) making up the entire thing to suit his political ambitions ? At least we are geting some input from people other then Jim R. This should have been a committee process in the beginning with all citizens input. And if these people live here, so what if they are union members, they are citizens of this city first. Your union hate is clouding your judgement on something that effects all of us as a city. How do you know they are out of town, did you ask them ?
I'm not a liar, you just don't like what I am saying, which represents the majority of the people in this city. So don't do your shoot the messenger stuff with me. And don't call me a liar again, or we are going to have more then words.
It sounds as Eric Christen is an educated man who respects freedom and fairness and has been commenting in reputable forums about this issue for quite some time.
Regarding imported shills, the following out of town union folks who were trying to our council what should be in our charter were at the meeting:
Robert Mosqueda, with The Laborers Training School in Azuza, he is the Coordinator for Locals 507, 652 and 802.
Doug Mangione, representing the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers in Orange.
Jim Conway, of Danville, consultant to a "statewide construction industry coalition."
Shari Pence, Construction Industry Force Account Council, from Riverside.
Jim Adams, from Anaheim, representing the LA/OC Building & Construction Trades Council.
Bobbie Hunter, of Los Angeles, representing the LA/OC Building & Construction Trades Council.
Facts,
Thanks for the list. Yes, this does work both ways. Appreciate the time you took.
PUBLIC COMMENTS: To ensure fair and equal treatment of all who appear before the City Council and to expedite City business, speakers will be limited to three (3) minutes each to address any item within the City Council's jurisdiction and which is not listed on the Agenda.
The three (3) minute per speaker time limit may be extended for good cause by the Mayor, or by majority vote of City Council Members.
causing a riots a "good cause"........
I watched the 9 minutes. I was thinking to myself this looks orchestrated, then I read Robin's ditty.
My take on why it looks orchestrated, which translates to zero transparency, Riggy has way to big of an ego to let anyone speak over him and Dayton did. And nothing from big Jim after Dayton said Fascism, just lets take a break. In Beavers words "Grandstanding"!
Riggy is turning, scratch that, has turned this city into a joke. Some day when you look up Costa Mesa on google you will see a lot of case law entries due to how he is running this city.
Speaking of running the city, curious as to why the ceremonial mayor was not at such an important meeting. Did Riggy tell him Dayton was coming, had it all worked out that Jumbo would give him extra time and Monohan was afraid of the backlash.
Speaking of backlash, I was told that Dayton was ready to "go" outside with some of the city employees, but they were man enough to politely step aside and let the thug walk by.
I would like a charter, yes. For neighborhood representation (crud, fitzy lives down the street), for cleaner laws. But I also realize it wont just erase what has been done like Riggy tells us it would be. I would love union pension reform, but not how Riggy is doing it.
To “Facts:”
You list the names, affiliations, and out-of-town residences of speakers for the union point of view. You use this to “prove” that they are shills, too, implying that the condition of being from out of town is the only criterion for being a shill.
The “inconvenient truth” you sidestep is that these people had the integrity to stand up and tell us the truth about their affiliation. This enabled the audience to figure out which axes the speakers were grinding and how much credence to give them.
Further, they made it clear whom they worked for: unionized workers.
In contrast, Righeimer’s invitee from Sacramento, Kevin Dayton, lied about his affiliation. Instead of truthfully stating that he was the State lobbyist for the construction industry (ABC) making a special trip to CM to lobby, he made up a cover story …
1. that he represented the nonexistent “Dayton Public Policy Institute” (thereby implying nonpartisanship),
2. that he was in the area on business and decided to stop by out of the goodness of his heart, and
3. that he needed to tell the “truth” about Project Labor Agreements.
By impersonating someone he was not, he prevented the public from calibrating his message and from knowing how many grains of salt his words should be taken with.
That’s what a shill is, a confederate in the audience who shouts enthusiasm for the snake oil being touted to the audience of rubes by the slick salesman.
That this attempt to fool the public was so readily found out, signals that the previously smooth rollout of the Righeimer/Bever/Monahan charter is showing serious weaknesses.
We report; you decide.
Kwahlf, in case you weren't aware, your mental stability has been questioned by many people, for many years.
My remark is in reference to the crack you made about the mental stability of another speaker.
Pot Calls Kettle Black,
Since it's so obvious that you are talking out the side of your neck, I will not dignify your comment with a response.
These guys work together often..
Big Labor Smackdown Part VII
Nonprofits & Activism, 10m 1s. Published: 13 Sep, 2010
ABC's Kevin Dayton discusses the success that Chula Vista and Oceanside have experienced in banning PLAs. CFEC's Eric Christen thanks the panel for fighting for fair and open competition, and encourages everyone to join the fight. The question/answer portion of the discussion begins. Watch to learn ...
Moorlach is also probably involved,
Big Labor Smackdown Part II
Nonprofits & Activism, 10m 1s. Published: 12 Sep, 2010
CFEC's Eric Christen introduces the Big Labor Smackdown panel - John Moorlach, Carl DeMaio, Steven Greenhut, and Kevin Dayton. John Moorlach begins the discussion with an anecdote that demonstrates why accountability is vital. Watch to learn more...
Video clips are available through online.
Wow, that's interesting, Moorlach, The Facist screamer Dayton and Christen all on the same panel in 2010.
Dayton and Christen on the Armstrong radio show. This is all just chance. Really?.
Wow! So the traveling show of Dayton and Christen just happen to both be in Costa Mesa on the same day and during a special council meeting. Both people are tied to Moorlach on this panel. Coincidence?
Even MAYOR Righeimer tried to shut down the shill before he made an idiot out of himself and it didn't work. Yes officially he isn't the mayor but we all know who is calling the shots.
You usually see council shutting down the oppositions comments. It's rare when they try to shut down their own shill. Once this knucklehead Dayton began screaming at the taxpayers to pay attention many times over Mayor Righeimer's comments Righeimer knew all he could do to save the impact of the shill was to quickly go to a break.
What a show. Yes friends show it was.
What i really want to know is if the others in the crowd that were 'taunting' were plants as well. Absolutely reeks of yet another political stunt by Riggy and his merry band of BS artists...
And yes, there is a major connection between Righeimer, Mensinger and Moorlach. Moorlach showed up at Mensinger's house to meet with Righeimer and Mensinger on Saint Patrick's Day last year. Hummmmm. Anyone remember that day? Damage control perhaps?
The council members are really martians!! It sounds far fetched but it's true. I saw the zipper on the back of Riggys head. All those new cell phone towers are really mind controlling devices. Don't say I didnt warn you.
Geoff,
Having forwarded my transcription of Dayton's diatribe to you, I hope you will publish it; I feel the boy's remarks deserve critical reading and analysis, not because I like them, but for what information on the orchestrated nature of the incident can be gleaned from them.
Some observations:
1. The record does not show that Righeimer gave him ten minutes to speak; he may have, but the time granted was drowned out by Dayton's voice if Righeimer did state it.
2. The statements Dayton made, if carefully read, seem sarcastically put. It seems to me that any reasonable person, reading them, would be so shaken by their nature that his attitude to the charter would suffer a swing toward the negative.
3. Dayton's tone of voice was supercilious, erudite, and snide -- all characteristics calculated to evoke a negative reaction.
4. The shout-down, when it came, came from the right side of council chambers; who was sitting there, I do not know. The interesting part here is that it came when the purportedly-granted ten minutes had nearly run out...
5. When Riggy declared a break, I got up and moved toward the center aisle, where Dayton was standing next to the burliest of Costa Mesa's finest (good guy, but I don't know his name). I was in the same row as Katrina Foley, who apparently thought I wanted a piece of Dayton, and gently cautioned me to take it easy. I did not hear Dayton's cry of "Bring it"; but in any event, would not have responded to it, as the discipline to which I belong mandates that we run (with confidence) from any such altercation.
6. The points brought out in the posts on Dayton's origin, personal habits, morals, and probable destination are interesting. I, personally, can only say that I hope when he gets home his mother runs out from under the porch and bites him.
You are doing a good, if somewhat thankless job. Keep it up!
Another interesting tidbit is that Moorlach's former chief of staff, Rick Francis, is now Costa Mesa's assistant chief executive officer. This has all been planned people. Rumor is that Moorlach will retire from The County of Orange, collect his fat pension, and run for city council in Costa Mesa. Scott Baugh said "Ground Zero" will be in Costa Mesa. So far the plan is working. Remember in Righeimer's world resistance is futile. Where is Captain Pickard when you need him?
Think about all the crazy stuff. Return To Reason. Chris McEvoy for Council. Repair Costa Mesa. Cancel the Layoff Signs.
A thought came to mind.
This too shall pass
Wow...
To all the peeps here,
This is politics. Ranting about conspiracies and such is entertaining, but... REALLY?
Jim Righeimer has made no secret about his agenda for decades. His affiliations with other political figures is well documented.
Why are you all running around in circles speculating about hidden agendas? They are not hidden! Please, take a breath and relax.
Jim doesn't support the public employee union agenda and is doing everything he can to dismantle the unions in Costa Mesa. If you don't like his agenda, then boot him and his supporters out of office in the next couple of elections.
To complain about him gaining some financial, political, personal or other gain is goofy unless you have proof. In that case, deliver it to the FPPC or OC DA (not sure that would have much value given T-Rack's political affiliations).
Otherwise, all of this angst is just wasted. Totally entertaining, but wasted non-the-less.
But please, don't let me stop you :) Carry on!
Bruce Kotchman...No conspiracy theories here. I think this is one of the only places, if not the only place, where people can discuss this stuff. Serna and the Daily Pilot are in the bag for these guys and the OC Register is absolutely asleep at the wheel. Maybe if these publications actually put there journalism degrees to use there wouldn't be as much here because the truth of things would come out more. It isn't that folks don't know what his agenda is, it is that he has used fabricated numbers, shills like this guy and a red herring in the charter to further his own political career. He needs most voters to be asleep and hope they don't notice his charade. This whole speaker business should have resulted in negative coverage for him as it was so obviously staged. But, nothing but silence from the media. Hence, frustration here.
The city has a $3.8 million surplus in part to the increase in TOT tax, concessions by the employees going back to 2008 and things this council has done (I almost vomited in my mouth writing that but it is true). And yet there he and Mensinger were talking about imposing contracts on employees in the future to have money to do the pet projects they want to do such as street repair where most of the money comes from outside city sources anyway. As long as this garbage goes on, people will come here to expose it.
Bruce Krochman decided to correct all the posters here and wrote:
"This is politics. Ranting about conspiracies and such is entertaining, but... REALLY?"
Me:
Yes, really. This is not merely politics, but DIRTY politics. It needs to be discussed and exposed.
Geoff has done an excellent job in the blog postings. The comments are an extension thereof.
BK:
"Jim Righeimer has made no secret about his agenda for decades. His affiliations with other political figures is well documented."
Me:
True, but many of his METHODS are "secret," and underhanded. Geoff West and the commenters here have done an excellent job of bringing them to light.
Further, these things need to be discussed in order for anyone who might not be as "on top of it" as you believe yourself to be to become educated. Therefore the discussions must continue.
BK:
"Why are you all running around in circles speculating about hidden agendas? They are not hidden! Please, take a breath and relax."
Me:
Again,
1) The agenda may not be clear to everyone;
2) The METHODS need to be discussed and dissected.
When you say "relax," you sound like Righeimer at the last meeting telling Costa Mesa to CALM DOWN.
While relaxation and calmness are always desirable for clear thinking, a little adrenaline in response to clear threats is not only normal, but good.
The dangers in constant "calmness" and "relaxation" is hibernation and inaction, where one convinces himself that nothing can or should be done until the next election.
In this environment, telling someone to "calm down" or "relax" reminds me of when a rapist tells his victim to just relax and enjoy it.
Bruce, I don't get you. There is nothing wrong with providing people with information so that they can make informed decisions. Even dissenters like Barry provide good commentary as it allows people to see both sides in order to form opinions. This charter is too important not to be presented with all the facts and opinions, before voters go the polls. Go back to your own blog that no one reads and let people comment here as they wish.
I love it. The Haters cannot help themselves from hating no matter who you are, if you say something positive or about Council, the Haters will atack.
You're not listening! Or if you are listening but do not agree, then you are a bully.
Bruce is a very non confrontational.
Funny to see Bruce get attacked.
If Geoff West ever sees the light and becomes less angry, these same people will attack the Pot Belly.
I would like to know who Joe is. I have narrowed it to two likely groups. He is either old and angry, or a union hack.
Shill 'They Hate' wrote:
"..would like to know who Joe is. I have narrowed it to two likely groups. He is either old and angry, or a union hack."
Me:
Put me under "old and angry" for now, same as how you've labeled Geoff West. It's an honor.
And I've yet to see Bruce Krochman "attacked" here. He is simply confused and will hopefully see the light soon.
Winning an election doesn't give someone carte blanche to rule. Laws must be followed. You and your little friends will understand that soon enough regardless of having friends in high places.
Joe, having met you in person I cracked up at They Hate Everything's conception of you!
Being slimed by the true haters here(trolls) means you are doing something good. Keep up the good work!
Ah, got it. Nice company Joe and kwalf keep.
The Hater of my Hated is my friend.
My parents taught me that we are judged by the friends we keep.
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