Monday, June 13, 2011

Mensinger's Property Vandalized

FACEBOOK ALERT
Today several friends notified me of a post on non-elected Costa Mesa City Councilman Steve Mensinger's Facebook page that was entered late Saturday evening. Since old Steve decided to "de-friend" me on Facebook I no longer see anything he posts
. Here's how the entry read:

"Steve Mensinger

Repair Costa
Mesa visited my home last night
Sad Note

On a sad note of story that will not appear in the LA Times, our family was visited by a group of union supporters sometime last night. After they put a "Cancel the layoff " sign in my yard they applied paint to my car and proceeded over to the Pop Warner bins where the scribbled the words " KKK" along with an assortment of other painted designs. Clearly Greg, Nick and Joel and their Union friends have found their stride. Today more than ever I understand why change is needed.
By: Steve Mensinge
r
"

It was followed by a lengthy comment thread offering condolences on the vandalism and some encouraged retaliation.

VENEZIA'S EXCELLENT COVERAGE
Later this afternoon I read Orange County Register Columnist Barbara Venezia's account of this event, including some comments directly from Mensinger. You can read it HERE.


TROUBLING ELEMENTS
Several things trouble me about this situation. It is deplorable that ANYONE would com
mit such a blatant and inappropriate act of vandalism on anyone's home and truck, much less an elected official. I seem to recall that such crimes against elected officials are felonies and, as such, subject to extreme punishment under the law. And, based on reports, this crime was coupled with a similar act of vandalism of the Pop Warner storage shed at Estancia High School that could qualify as a hate crime if reports are accurate.

WHY DIDN'T HE REPORT IT?
Although I'm not in his shoes, I'm also more than a little concerned about Mensinger's reaction to this vandalism. First, he chose NOT to file a police report, which I find to be curious, indeed, but wrote about it on his Facebook page. If he doesn't trust the Costa Mesa Police Department - as was stated by CEO Tom Hatch during his meeting with CMPD rank-and-file last week - that's one thing. However, this threat SHOULD have been reported, if not to the CMPD, then to the county District Attorney's office.

SON REMOVED THE EVIDENCE
Second, based on reports, his son managed to remove the bright red paint from Mensinger's
truck - a white truck, if memory serves. I find myself wondering just how that is possible without leaving damage to the underlying paint. Regardless, the evidence of the vandalism is now apparently gone and with it any possibility of linking the Pop Warner vandalism with it. I'm not sure how it will now be possible to track down and punish the perpetrators.

MENSINGER'S REACTION ALSO TROUBLING
Of grea
ter concern was Mensinger's knee-jerk reaction of accusing - by name - members of employee groups and others who have vocally opposed his plans for the destruction of this city. Only after threats of legal action by the lawyer for the Orange County Employee's Association did he remove his post from his Facebook page.

THESE ACTS ARE WRONG - PERIOD!

I am not, for one millisecond, condoning these acts of vandalism. Whoever did these things should be identified and prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

AS IS MENSINGER'S REACTION
However, as a city council member, Mensinger is held to a higher standard of behavior than your average schmuck next door. His reaction in this matter has the potential to cause the city to incur very seri
ous legal consequences.

PART OF A PATTERN OF BEHAVIOR

Unfortunately, what we see here is a pattern of behavior that is very troubling. It appears that anyone who speaks out against Mensinger will eventually suffer his wrath. Larry
Grihalva, EMS Coordinator for our city who spoke out before the council, now sees his job being eliminated. The Telecommunications Manager who, according to some reports, butted heads with Mensinger recently is being shoved aside and her job filled by a new police lieutenant's job. Sue Lester, a council candidate last fall and operator of a medical marijuana dispensary in our city, has spoken out frequently before the City Council on many matters, only to have her business raided and shut down. A coincidence?

DESIGNED TO INTIMIDATE
I fear that these events, and others, are designed to intimidate the opposition - particularly those members of employee groups willing to speak out about this council's tactics. It appears as though certain members of our council will use and abuse their powers to make the lives of the opposition miserable, including tossing them into the trash heap like a used wad of Kleenex.

TUESDAY SHOULD BE INTERESTING
Tuesday's extended Study Session, at which the Budget will be further fleshed-out and the restructuring of the CMPD will be discussed, should be very interesting. I suspect the 4:30 event will play to a pretty full house again, as residents and employees alike listen to the rationale set forth by this council for the destruction of this city.

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43 Comments:

Anonymous judy lindsay said...

I am beginning to be concerned, I suppose my numerous letters to council, and news media against the recent misquided actions of the men on our city council, may result in my being accused of some wrong doing. Of course at age 73, I don't drive, depend on a walker for mobility, have limited vision, have faithfull old dog for protection and have Cancel Layoff sign in my front yard!

6/13/2011 07:03:00 PM  
Anonymous Sick of it All said...

Sounds like the brick in the window at Monahan's pub... Another Brick in the Wall, as Pink Floyd wrote...

Whoever did it should be hauled off to jail regardless - this is really getting old. No reason for this stuff to happen.

6/13/2011 07:45:00 PM  
Anonymous not a believer, wear boots said...

I think removing the paint is tampering with evidence. He could have helped the police and made cm a safer place/ If the paint was so easily removed, It may have been the stuff they use at football games to paint windows and cars. Maybe Mensinger pissed someone else off, or a page out of monahans brick play. Stay in the press fighting the evil employees. Sell,Sell,sell you message

6/13/2011 07:45:00 PM  
Anonymous Gone Fishin said...

Sounds like a plan by the GOP to blame the Union. Such nonsense and yet:

1. Mensinger did not call the Police thus fingerprints could not be taken

2. He posted his "rantings" on Facebook. Unprofessional for a public city official

3. I know personally many Estancia athletes that HATE Mensinger but yet he accuses an easy target like the Union

4. Sounds fishy and contrived to gather attention to his GOP cause

Sorry guys, everyone with any sense knows your game. Hopefully, Tom isn't duped.

6/13/2011 07:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Mensinger Lies said...

Second time today I have heard many of the students and athletes do not care for Mensinger. Hmmm..

6/13/2011 07:51:00 PM  
Anonymous unionquiltersforleece said...

totally expected reactions, you guys are sooo readable. As soon as I heard of the event I knew the loonies of the alternate universe would spin this 180 degrees.

6/13/2011 08:14:00 PM  
Blogger The Pot Stirrer said...

unionquiltersforleece,
And which "guys" are you referring to? Me? I'm just a guy who has lived in this city for the past 37+ years, paid pretty close attention to municipal affairs for the past decade and doesn't like what he sees happening to his city. How about you? Do you live in the city? How long? Why the pen name?

If you think you've discovered something because I speak out against what I feel is wrong for this city, well, you're one perceptive dude... NOT!

6/13/2011 08:40:00 PM  
Anonymous Tom Egan said...

If I were Mr. Mensinger, I wouldn't file a police report if it looked like I could fix it myself. Reason: to my mind, an elected representative of the people is a lot like an old fashioned King, no matter what the theology of democracy tells us. As long as the King is on the throne, he can basically do whatever he wants as long as it's legal. (Of course, if he wants to get reelected, he has to be judicious in what he does/says.) For this reason, a King would appear weak if he didn't handle problems in a "kingly" way, as in "above it all." But he would be sure to quietly get his revenge for lese majeste!

An outcome of this power relationship is that complaining to people who work for you (e.g., the cops) immediately labels you as a complainer even if it's what the little people would do. (Look what a beating Mr. Bever took when he complained of cops giving him the "stink eye" during last fall's campaign season.)

Perhaps an even better analogy is the well known "government as parents, and citizens as children" one. City councilmembers would be the parents who take care of us, and all the rest of us are the children. Anyone who is a parent knows you're not going to get much sympathy from your kids if they do something you don't like.

Now if the damage was severe enough that insurance was going to be involved a police report would be necessary, even if Mensinger’s “loyal” subjects would make fun of him.

6/13/2011 08:42:00 PM  
Anonymous Just Saying said...

I feel certain the reason Mr. Mensinger didn't file a police report is simply because our fine men in blue don't like to take them.

A couple years ago I tried to file a police report against someone who was abusing an elderly and infirm neighbor of mine. Guess what? Four cops ganged up on me and talked me out of it (more like totally intimidated me). They don't like having to take those reports, especially if their shift is about to end.

Like it or not Geoff, you play an indirect part in what happened because you love to stir the Costa Mesa cuckoos up. You stroke the likes of Gericault and make him think he's some kind of folk hero when he's really nothing more than a gigolo and a thug with too much time on his hands. I have a feeling Mr. Mensinger has accurately pegged his vandals.

6/13/2011 09:54:00 PM  
Blogger The Pot Stirrer said...

Just Saying,
Puh-leeze! A presentation of facts stirs up the "Costa Mesa Cuckoos"? You, like Mensinger, Righeimer and the rest of those lock-step lemmings think that anyone with an opposing opinion are "cuckoos". That's how ego maniacs work.

Why, prey tell, did old Biff file a police report against Joel Flores in the "chest-bumping" incident - a nothing event - and not file one in this clear case of vandalism? Seems more than a little inconsistent to me.

I had to chuckle at your description of Greg Ridge as a gigolo... I'm sure his wife, Nancy, will get a kick out of it, too.

6/13/2011 10:25:00 PM  
Blogger Gericault said...

Geez, just the other day I had Bootsie telling everyone I didn't have a job......well ....I'm off to work. Have a nice night everybody,.......tomorrows another day.

6/13/2011 10:43:00 PM  
Anonymous Just Saying said...

I guess I'm just here to entertain you. :-)

Try not to forget that other people are entitled to their opinions too Geoff. You've got yours, I've got mine and Mensinger has his. We need to respect one another's right to free speech. You go bonkers every time Righeimer or Mensinger open their mouths. The fact that Mensinger "defriended" you on Facebook is what appears to have set off this tirade against him.

For instance, an example of your inflammatory rhetoric that certainly is NOT a presentation of fact, is your remark: "his plans for the destruction of this city". That's the kind of goading that causes whackos to vandalize. Let's not encourage anyone to take things to the next level. At times, you tend to confuse fact with fiction and your readers get the wrong idea.

Just saying what needs to be said.

6/13/2011 11:12:00 PM  
Blogger The Pot Stirrer said...

Just Saying,
I'm not entertained, thank you very much.

Yes, indeedy, other people are entitled to their opinions. If you take a peek at the top of the page you'll see that this is MY venue for opinions. Whether I permit you to express yours here is entirely, 100% up to me. On this blog I'm God - I make all the decisions. If you don't like what I publish here simply stop reading it, for "my" sakes!

I doubt any honest person can say that I'm not tolerant about what get's published here. Your drivel, for example, is right there for everyone to read.... You're welcome...

Old Steve "de-friended" me a couple months ago and I've not lost a single instant of sleep over it. I don't "go bonkers every time Righeimer and Mensinger open their mouths"... only when they fabricate issues and bend the truth. Come to think about it, maybe that is every time they open their mouths, after all.

I reject your allegation that I goad people into violent acts. That kind of slander generates lawsuits, so I'd be a little more careful with the accusations. While you might THINK you have complete anonymity here, I wouldn't be so sure... Technology is a wonderful thing - a device that leaves trails that are VERY easy to backtrack.

What I do is present facts AND opinions. People who read what I write here are free to take it for what it's worth. It's all free, with no obnoxious "Repair Costa Mesa" pop-up ads to make you grind your teeth.

One more time... I think the tactics that Jim Righeimer and his non-elected pal, Steve Mensinger, the occasional councilman, Eric Bever and the increasingly inconsequential, Gary Monahan are employing are wrong. I also think the tactics the OCEA and their pals in the national union are taking are wrong and will almost certainly backfire and hurt the members of the CMCEA. Who is "wronger" in this little drama? No question in my mind - the vindictive Jim Righeimer and his handlers in the OC GOP.

Next issue...

6/13/2011 11:28:00 PM  
Blogger Joe said...

Alleged Vandalism Against Menssy:

Weeks ago, after Biff Mensinger allegedly attacked teacher Flores, faster than you can say "Extreme Right-Wing Tool," our Charlie Sheen clone went to Flores's employer school district and made a complaint, which was soon dismissed as frivolous.

Now we're to believe that Menssy the Bully is really Menssy the victim. Yet there's no evidence or documentation for this revision.

Human behavior repeats the same patterns over and over. Read this piece and maybe you'll see some similarities to present day Costa Mesa:

http://www.historyplace.com/worldwar2/riseofhitler/burns.htm

And how dare anyone accuse Geoff West of anything except truthtelling?

Defaming West won't hide what the bad guys are doing to our city.

6/13/2011 11:49:00 PM  
Blogger The Pot Stirrer said...

OK, Joe...
Thanks for the kind words.
That link is right up to the edge... I posted it and, while I do see some similarities, I'm not quite ready to lump these guys with Hitler's Nazis - yet.

6/14/2011 12:10:00 AM  
Blogger Joe said...

GW:
"..while I do see some similarities, I'm not quite ready to lump these guys with Hitler's Nazis - yet.."

Me:
Similarities in behavior/tactics: Yes.
Nazis, not yet.

Similarities:

Scapegoating select people (City employees, immigrants , union members;

Bullies posing as victims;

Propaganda (claiming budget imbalance, making up figures);
hiring Lobell to spin;

Probable phony acts of violence: Mensinger "paint attack," Monahan "brick "thrown."

Physical altercation: Alleged assault on teacher Flores;

6/14/2011 12:24:00 AM  
Blogger Chris McEvoy said...

This council will ruin our City. I can remember riggy saying something along the lines of 'Costa Mesa needs to wake up and decide who it wants to be' riggy you are clueless, people who live here love what Costa Mesa is and you are in the minority. however this is bad for his out of town bia business pac buddies... Thanks for the traffic guys

How about all the nanny ordinances these guys pass. They love telling you what you can and can't do. Rules don't apply them, they can be bent, a favorite is campaign contributions and appointments, right mccarthy and mensinger...

con and jenn would put their heads on a stick if they knew all the fee and fine increases they put on the residents. Out of town
corporations are off limits though.

all the $3,000 a week pr can not buy these guys character.

riggy and mensi will ruin our City

I wonder if any of our other residents that have been harrassed at their hands will start to come forward...

6/14/2011 12:27:00 AM  
Anonymous Jennifer said...

BC, still waiting for you or your small band of extremists to offer one single solution to balance our budget or fix our ship. Still waiting. This blog has just become a trashing ground for whoever is in power, with no idea on a fix or plan to get us going again. Pretty sad.

6/14/2011 07:39:00 AM  
Blogger The Pot Stirrer said...

Jennifer, may I offer you a pillow and a glass of warm milk while you wait? Pay attention, girl! Several of the good folks who post comments here HAVE offered suggestions. You apparently see what you want to see - typical!

6/14/2011 07:44:00 AM  
Anonymous Recall Riggy and Mensinger said...

MENSINGER AND RIGHEIMER BURNED MY HOUSE DOWN, TO PROMOTE THEIR AGENDA....... but I didn't call the police. No reason to make a bigger thing of it. So me and my son rebuilt our house and now everything is fine.


** doesn't that just sound ridiculous? doesn't that sound made up? ( it is, and i'm making a point) BUT THAT IS EXACTLY MENSINGER DID. Its clear they will lie, cheat , steal and say anything just to shock the public.

Remember, Riggy and Mensinger are politicians and IF THEIR MOUTHS ARE OPEN THEY ARE LYING.

6/14/2011 07:48:00 AM  
Anonymous Jeff said...

Geoff, you regularly fan the flames of hate them bemoan the resulting actions. You can't have it both ways.

6/14/2011 08:16:00 AM  
Anonymous The Fake Gus Ayer said...

After reading all the coverage one thing doesn't make sense. Mensinger filed a report against Joel Flores will all deliberate speed after the chest-bumping incident. So, why did he not report this? He could have taken pictures for proof. Instead he got rid of any evidence.

I'll take Mensinger at his word, but his actions don't make sense.

Oh, except for the "put the two together" line on the other incident. Painting Hatch's office on the weekend does not qualify you to make CSI-style pigment analyses.

6/14/2011 08:18:00 AM  
Blogger Joe said...

'Recall' wrote:
"Remember, Riggy and Mensinger are politicians.."

Me:
Riggy's a politician, Menssy's not.
Riggy's very clever and knows how to manipulate media and voters. Which is why he was Rohrabacher's campaign manager.

Menssy's just a bully-boy from the Central Valley who doesn't quite know how to live in the big city. Example #28: Naming names on his Facebook page, then having to delete the post after a lawyer letter. Business Law 101.

6/14/2011 08:20:00 AM  
Anonymous Mensinger is a JOKE said...

I am beginning to think Mensinger is having a mental breakdown. His actions are those of someone who is under incredible stress and following apart at the seams. This "so-called" event fabricated by individuals with everything to gain and nothing to lose is a desperate attempt at attention and to put blame on an obvious enemy. A 4 yr. old could figure this out.

6/14/2011 08:35:00 AM  
Blogger The Pot Stirrer said...

Jeff, sure I can...

6/14/2011 08:55:00 AM  
Anonymous BANGYOURHEAD said...

Sounds to me like everyone Messinger accused should file a lawsuit ASAP.

6/14/2011 09:53:00 AM  
Blogger The Pot Stirrer said...

Hmmm, why didn't I think of that? :-)

6/14/2011 09:55:00 AM  
Anonymous Kent Morrow said...

Why does Mensy point the finger at the public employee unions? This sounds more like a Pop Warner rival. This reeks of the Irvine Pop Warner league, don't you think?

6/14/2011 10:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Somebody call a lieutenant said...

MENS can't report the crime because then then he will add to the crimes that are piling up in Costa Mesa. He can't contribute to the evidence that when you have fewer cops you have more crime. Pretty much this council needs to become a community policing project because they take up too large a share of police resources and time. Maybe they can be declared a public nuisance?

6/14/2011 01:21:00 PM  
Anonymous sports or politics said...

Just driving down harbor and saw a suv has Go #-- CDm baseball in red car paint all over the back of the car. Maybe if steves house gets toliet papered .We can call out the national guard. The sign on the lawn should have been recall. The facebook was way out of line. Biff needs a muzzle and a leash

6/14/2011 01:58:00 PM  
Anonymous You should be ashamed of yourself said...

Geoff West,

A new low, even for you:

"I'm not quite ready to lump these guys with Hitler's Nazis - yet."

Your statement is wildly inappropriate. There is absolutely no excuse for such a statement, and you should be ashamed of yourself - but you won't be.

6/14/2011 03:24:00 PM  
Blogger The Pot Stirrer said...

Of course, you didn't bother to read the essay at the link provided, did you? Of course not. Why bother with facts when you can just vent your spleen.

6/14/2011 03:30:00 PM  
Anonymous You should be ashamed of yourself said...

Geoff West,

You mean the linked article which had these statements about Hitler's Nazis and their activities:

"...ruthless Germanization of conquered territories."

"The vulgar, brawling, murderous Nazi storm troopers..."

"...harassed, beaten, or even murdered by Nazis..."

Time to man up and admit that you went way over the top.

6/14/2011 04:11:00 PM  
Anonymous i-Carly said...

It seems like Menses can't get out of his "extended adolescence", period! (Pun, like "Totallly!!!" intended).

I mean, "seriously", he texts like a teenage-girl up on the dais. He habitually directs intensely catty, mean-spirited, in-appropriate comments towards Councilmember Leece.

And he also has a uncanny tendency to chest-bump when he's overly frustrated, instead of formulating a coherent & intelligent response to more articulate CM constituents such as EHS english teacher Joel Flores as well as (he previously shoulder-charged) former CM City Council Candidiate / math teacher Chris McEvoy.

He blatantly ignores, or does not listen to adults when spoke to ( e.g. mandated 3-minute audience speakers). This disrespectful adolescent behavior clearly exudes his omnipotent and "all-knowing" invincible powers. Apparently he thinks like Superman, except his kryptonite is transparent truth.

And just last week he revealed his "man-crush" on the Hatchster and Commander Starn. And he's trying way to hard to impress the very temporary "in-crowd" of the OC GOP and Der Rigsheister.

One would think an appointed middle-aged City Council Member would display "decorum" and true professionalism while representing his 113,000+ CM constituents, hundreds of CM businesses, and all 400+ City of Costa Mesa Employees.

Obliviously, Steve-O is only looking out for "Numero Uno", what a pompous JACKASS!

6/14/2011 05:09:00 PM  
Blogger Gericault said...

@ You should be ashamed of yourself........Geoff West would be on the first box car out of Costa Mesa.....

Don't you dare tell him what he should or should not have an opinion on.......it just proves his point.

6/14/2011 08:21:00 PM  
Anonymous Police Admin said...

Thanks for mentioning exactly what happened to the Telecommunications Manager. Mensinger was pissed because she corrected him politely of course that the Sheriffs Dept does not have volunteers answering the phones.

He was very argumentative and tried to bully Anna Tellez to acknowledge he was right and demanded to know why Costa Mesa doesn't have volunteers answering 9-1-1 calls!

She tried her best to educate him on why it's not possible...and now it cost Anna Tellez her job. They launched an bogus investigation on an anonymous letter and when she and her staff was exonerated he had egg on
his face since he demanded the investigation which cost
the tax payers big money

Now her position is being eliminated and replaced by a Lt.
Who makes more money and a pension of 3 percent at 50
! Opposite of what the have been preaching about salaries
and pension.

No one at CMPD is experienced or has knowledge to take over a communications center. The city is losing a 32 yr veteran who also launched Alert OC for them ...PD didn't know how. She introduced GPS system to the Fire Department to track not only costa Mesa fire rigs but the
entire orange co with one click of the button you can see every piece of fire equipment in the county and what the
are doing.

She introduced broadband to us in the police department giving police vehicles the ability to access wireless Internet to assist them in the field. Does this sound like someone who is not competent ? Costa Mesa was on the verge of
technology getting them ready for next generation 911 that
would allow txt messages, videos that can be uploaded to 911.

Well I'm sure this bright, sharp professional will be employed in no time. She also pretty much has been
informed she is now getting a 30 day notice and council
has yet to even vote on the reorganization ....and the PD
has been informed this will start July 1st! council again is
in violation of the brown act!

Ms. Tellez it was a pleasure working with you. You are well respected at least by the PD. You made my job so much easier.

Where ever you land....I hope they treat you with more dignity then the few council and CEO did.

At least you didn't sell yourself out or buckle to Mensinger bulliness....Kudos to you!

6/14/2011 08:53:00 PM  
Blogger Joe said...

It'll all be over soon:

After he dismantles our city, Riggy will move back to Newport with those 40 pieces of silver bulging from his pockets.

Menssy and Fitzpatrick will be set free to roam up and down Harbor.

6/14/2011 09:50:00 PM  
Anonymous Diogenes said...

Hey--enough ragging on Steverino! After all, I'm told he has stopped beating his wife, no longer accepts bribes, and has decided to stop lying about his truck's being vandalized. I have it on good authority that he will no longer post "Cancel the layoffs" signs in his front yard, and has sworn off "chest-bumping" anybody over one hundred seventy pounds. And what's all that about his not being fit to live with pigs?? HE IS TOO FIT TO LIVE WITH PIGS!!

6/15/2011 12:24:00 AM  
Anonymous Sick of it All said...

You forgot his badge at the airport and do you know who I am schtick... not fit

6/15/2011 06:22:00 AM  
Anonymous unionquiltersforleece said...

very disturbing comments. i hope you guys leave your crimes at the sign and paint level but this seems like it is going to escalate. these comments are insane, what type of minds do you have to take the time to write in and say this crap? Oh, i know, it is the ocgop's fault, not Muirs lies and incendiary writings.

6/15/2011 08:00:00 AM  
Anonymous Cm999 said...

Attn police admin
What you failed to tell everyone is that 90% of the dispatchers can't wait until Anna Tellez is gone. She has ruined the entire dispatch center. It was her poor scheduling that caused the excessive overtime. She has a small group of Crony's that she rewards with the best shifts and easiest overtime. Why do we currently have three dispatchers out on stress leave, for the past few months. It's because they can no longer work for her. She makes
$173,000.00 a year. We can't wait until she is gone and we can work under the control of the police dept.

6/15/2011 09:18:00 PM  
Anonymous Pill Bug said...

Attn Police Admin/Number 1 on the list/Sexist Mensinger :

You are not fooling anyone. First, you defend "Ms. Tellez", arguing she is being targeted. Then, you needlessly attack sworn members of the police department. Now, you pretend to be a member of the police department in a sad attempt to make your manager shine. Do you really believe a member of the police department has first hand knowledge of the disinformation you speak of? Her reputation speaks for itself.

Half the city employees may be laid off. The target is much larger than your manager. Please have some dignity and pride for your department and those who remain.

6/16/2011 06:35:00 PM  
Blogger patches said...

I'm wondering if the Costa Mesa Council should be re-named to the Costa Mesa Mafia.Just wondering.It sounds like you don't dare go against them. Mmmmmm

6/25/2011 02:34:00 PM  

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