Wednesday, November 28, 2007

The Politics of Immigration


Over the past couple of days the local news media has presented us with some very interesting and thought-provoking articles to consider on the subject of illegal immigration. I'll present the following comments and the links to the individual pieces for your consideration. I think you'll find the time reading each well spent.

MINUTECHICK REBUFFED
Right off
the top, a judge backed the city of Laguna Beach on the issue of their day laborer center. You will recall that our pal, Eileen of Laguna - Minutechick Eileen Garcia - and her hubby with a different last name sued the city. This link will give you the information. It looks like our young jailer/mayor's favorite Minutechick will appeal this ruling. At least it might keep her occupied and out of Costa Mesa's business for a change.

MANSOOR FIGHTS BACK - KINDA
Next, th
e Orange County Register produced an editorial on November 16, 2007, which can be read here, in which they addressed the Costa Mesa illegal immigration plans, and the presence of the ICE agent in our jail. On November 25, 2007 the Register ran a rebuttal to that editorial produced by our young jailer/mayor, which you can read here. Based on some of the stuff he wrote, it certainly does appear that the mayor has issues with those in authority, probably due to his under-achievement in his chosen profession.

ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR HEALTHCARE COST INCREA
SES?
The Los Angeles Times provided us with an interesting story of a study that appears to refute much of the argument that illegal immigrants account for a large percentage of the use of e
mergency rooms for health care. This study postulates that those here illegally don't use the emergency rooms because of the need for identification - that they fear deportation more than they need health care. If true, this takes much of the wind out of the sails of some anti-illegal immigrant factions. You can read the Times article here.

ORANG
E DAY LABORERS AND MINUTEMAN JIM
The City Council of the City of Orange considered the subject of day laborers in their city at their meeting Tuesday night. Among the more than a dozen speakers was the ubiquitous Jim Gil
christ, co-founder of the Minuteman Project and the man who anointed our young jailer/mayor with the mantle of Minutemanship. Old Jim certainly does like to spread the wealth, so to speak. You'll find the Register's account of that meeting here.

GREELEY, COLORADO, MAYOR OUSTED

Finally, the Los Angeles Times provided us with a most fascinating story from Tom
Tancredo country in an article about the ouster of Tom Selders, the mayor of Greeley, Colorado - a city similar in size and ethnic makeup to that of Costa Mesa - apparently because he was viewed as sympathetic to illegal immigrants. The link to that article is here. Rather than try to give you a "spun" version of the article, I'll leave it to you to read it and form your own comparisons to our situation.

IMMIGR
ATION POLITICS - WHAT'S NEXT?
Illegal imm
igration, and it's impact both locally and nationally, continues to be a ripe pimple on the nose of American politics, that will undoubtedly affect local and national elections next year. There seems to be no middle ground on the issue. The most vocal, rabid anti-immigrant activists - like Gilchrist and his frothing mob and some of Costa Mesa's own self-styled "improvers" - leap at any attempt at reasoned discourse like starving pit bulls, ready to rip out the throat of those with an opposing viewpoint and label anyone who tries to present a moderate view as "illegal immigrant lovers". As we've seen locally in recent years, attempts at dialogue end up being shouting matches - or worse. This is a truly sad commentary on our times.

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11 Comments:

Anonymous www.jimfisler.com said...

Mansoor wrote a great response in the Register. I am against illegals no matter how many billions they cost us in healthcare. I cannot believe you think the anti illegal crowd, who has the law on our side, are pouncing on the illegal lovers. It is quite the opposite. The name calling comes mostly from the other side, such as you. You once wrote I was trying to climb the political ladder on the backs of brown people. Nice. You say improvers want to rid CM of brown skinned people. Wrong, but what the heck, say it anyway and add it to all the other lies. Are you for illegal aliens being here? Yes or no? If no, then are you against brown skinned people? Are you racist? In your view of the world, you are either that or for illegal immigration. What is the bottom line here? Which of the two, and only two are allowed in your world, groups are you in?

11/28/2007 06:33:00 PM  
Blogger The Pot Stirrer said...

Ah, Commissioner Jim - I knew you'd respond to this one, although I find myself wondering if you actually read the articles linked in my posting, though. I'm guessing you didn't.

In his response to the Register editorial you pal, the mayor, says, "The Register also said that 'those here illegally will be reluctant to report crimes or cooperate with investigators in criminal investigations.' Where is the evidence to support this claim?" The mayor obviously has a bad case of selective memory, since three former chiefs of police - Snowden, Hensley and Staveley - all testified before the council to that fact. Then, again, he's gotten in the habit of ignoring the advice of his top cops, much to the detriment of our city and it's residents. Your comment, disjointed as usual, leaves me reeling. Your second sentence, in particular, makes me scratch my head, wondering exactly what you were trying to say.

Further on you demonstrate a selective memory similar to that of our young jailer/mayor. The self-anointed "improvers" have consistently used slurs, invective and lies trying to advance some of their bogus arguments. Last year's election campaign, when Mansoor and Leece and their gaggle of supporters consistently misrepresented the positions held by Bruce Garlich and Mike Scheafer, was a perfect example. I did notice you didn't deny my assertion that you were trying to climb the political ladder on the backs of brown people - why is that? There is irrefutable proof in the form of actions taken by many so-called "improvers" that support my assertion that they want to expunge the Latinos from our city - I've listed them many times in the past. Actions speak louder than words, Commissioner Jim. No matter how many times you and your pals try to deny it, the actions still exist.

One more time - I am not in favor of illegal immigration. I think secure borders are essential and should be the first step taken by the federal government to control the problem. I also believe that you can't yank the purported 12-30 million illegal workers from our economy without devastating consequences. I've written that so many times over the past couple years that I assume you've just chosen to ignore it in an attempt to spin your view.

I'm always happy when you choose to write a comment here - you demonstrate my views of some "improvers" much better than I can explain them. Thanks for that. Please come back soon. With the real estate market taking a nose dive, I expect you'll have plenty of time on your hands to write to me. On the other hand, with all those dangerous criminals snagged by the ICE man at the Costa Mesa jail awaiting deportation, there should be plenty of jobs for you if things get really slow. You know - mowing lawns, washing cars, wrapping burritos, cleaning homes and offices, being a nanny to kids in your neighborhood - lots of opportunities in those jobs taken from "real Americans" by the Latinos among us that Jim Gilchrist and his band of bozos rant about all the time. Perhaps we can re-open the Job Center to help you out. Oh, that's right - you'd prefer to use Labor Ready, right?

11/28/2007 11:31:00 PM  
Anonymous www.jimfisler.com said...

Well, I did not think I had to deny that I was trying to climb the political ladder on the backs of brown skinned people in a formal statement. So: I deny it. Also,I have never believed in the cops statements that illegals will be MORE reluctant to cooperate with investigators. It's a cop out statement, pardon the pun. They do not cooperate now! Even if true, so what? They need to go home where, as we read all the time, "they have a mistrust of police". Mansoor may have ignored the recommendations of three past police chiefs but NOT to the detriment of our city. Our city is trending upward, less graffitti, shootings, shopping carts, etc. Less people living in garages and 12 or more to an apartment. They have self deported. As for my disjointed comments, I am aware they do not flow perfectly. I am trying to make bullet points, not win an essay contest. With the real estate market in a dive I am actually working harder so I have less time, plus I own another business (since 1976) that I run so I am not planning on taking any of the jobs you mention right now. Maybe I will be forced to later and I have no problem mowing lawns since I do my own and used to mow lawns for a living in the 70's between college classes and I worked as a janitor as my night job in college as well. Yep, these two jobs supported myself, wife and child and helped put me through college. They should be available today for our LEGAL residents to do the same. I made the same money per hour thirty years ago as they pay today. Wonder why?

11/29/2007 08:33:00 AM  
Blogger The Pot Stirrer said...

Commissioner Jim, congratulations on being one of the handful of us still mowing our own lawns. Sounds like you won't have any trouble in the transition when the real estate market tanks completely in a few months.

Your attitude about the position taken by past chiefs of police is very disturbing. For a guy in a "leadership" role in our city, and who clearly aspires to higher office, to openly express such disregard for the views of highly qualified law enforcement leaders really bothers me - as I suspect it will bother many voters.

Your comments about the immigrants not cooperating now is a hoot! Why do you think that is? Could it be that, ever since our young jailer/mayor's attempt to designate every Costa Mesa officer as an immigration screener two years ago, the immigrants have lost confidence in the treatment they would get by they system? Obviously, from your cavalier statement, "Even if true, so what?", you don't care that a third of our residents now fear contact with our police. And don't think that applies only to those who may be here illegally. The remainder of the latino community, among whom those illegal immigrants live, are also apprehensive - a fact you can easily verify by making contact with activists in that segment of our community as I have done.

Commissioner Jim, your attitude represents precisely what is turning this city into a police state. You, the mayor and your "improver" buddies will not be satisfied until every brown face leaves our city and the demographics return to where they were when the city was incorporated a half century ago. You people need to wake up to the reality of the world today and help find ways to effectively manage the challenges that face this city - not try to return it to the days of Harper and Goat Hill.

11/29/2007 08:55:00 AM  
Anonymous www.jimfisler.com said...

I am surprised that you find it disturbing that I don't just lock step agree with police chiefs. I thought Snowden was very suspect and an illegal alien friendly chief. He also was very chummy with Maria Avila who aspired to make CM a replica of Huntington Park. I called the PD for something at my house back in the late 90's. I had earlier run for city council as a concerned citizen that we were being turned into a third world city by illegals. I wanted the job center closed and I wanted to spend that money to train and deputize an officer with the INS to screen those in our jails. Snowden talked to me about it and tried to intimidate me, a legal citizen while doing nothing about illegals. I was pretty much done with him at that point. Anyway, back to my disjointed point. When the cops came to my house they asked me for my driver's license and Social Security card! Wonder who put them up to that? Snowden? Talk about a police state! Hensley was at least neutral but he still didn't get it. He thought we would only get 12 or so illegals a year so a jail program would not be worth it. He was wrong about the numbers. Mansoor is a qualified law enforcement officer and I agree with him. My dad was a cop and most of our friends were cops. Many different opinions existed. So I do not dismiss all law enforcement opinions. I consider them and make up my mind based on the evidence. Yes to Labor Ready, everyone should pay their SS taxes. Illegals don't cooperate in LA either and I don't believe a third of our legal residents fear the police. If they do it is because of hysterical statements by the pro illegal crowd. If you are here legally and still fear the police then you have a problem you have to deal with but we should not stop catching illegals to make you feel all warm and safe.

11/29/2007 11:02:00 AM  
Blogger The Pot Stirrer said...

Commissioner Jim, you're surprised that I'm distressed about your lack of respect for the chiefs, huh? What arrogance! It's so typical of you and your buddies - those self-anointed "improvers" who think they know what's best for all of us. You admission of having a difficulty with Chief Snowden is quite telling. My own personal experience with police officers is that they normally are even-handed. What was asked of you is what you expect them to ask those illegal aliens you're so worried about. Why were you worried unless you had something to hide? As far as Mansoor being "qualified" - are you telling me that you equate his experience dodging excrement in the jail to more than a century of law enforcement command experience represented by Snowden, Hensley and Staveley? If so, you are even more hopeless than I thought!

I'm sure you're proud of your friends and relatives in law enforcement. My best friend was a LAPD officer for more than three decades and I am friends with many of his associates. Both his daughters are with the LAPD, too. It's tough work. Because we both know so many cops, we both realize that they are all individuals - human beings with the same frailties the rest of us have. To consistently, arrogantly ignore the recommendations of seasoned law enforcement leaders the way Mansoor has is malfeasance as far as I'm concerned and puts the safety of the public in jeopardy.

Commissioner Jim, please keep on writing whenever you feel like it. It's always entertaining to hear from you, even though your comments can be kind of spooky.

11/29/2007 03:41:00 PM  
Anonymous CM Watchtower said...

jim fisler ----- man did you get it handed to you by the pot stirrer. you are such a bitter, angry man. why such anger? if you don't like what the port stirrer has to say then leave. i certainly hope that you are not planning on running for city council again. it would be a shame to see you come in last AGAIN. honestly, you shouldn't even be on the planning commission. the cm watchtower read your stupid rebuttal to the pot stirrer and you failed to come up w/ one intelligent reply. how do you get through life? you can grandstand all you want to and try to suck up to the so-called "improvers" but it will not work. and to compare yourself to Chief Snowden ---- are you nuts? the CM Watchtower really doubts Snowden and the CMPD really had it out for you. do you take meds for your paranoia. who else has it out for you? the pot stirrer had it right when he said the bottom is going to fall out of the real estate industry soon. which is great 'cause I just fired my mobile car washer so if you can put together a resume and pass a drug test then maybe i will hire you.

11/29/2007 09:28:00 PM  
Anonymous Mike McNiff said...

In a slightly related immigration note, I drove home from Hoag Tues. morning down Placentia and counted 20 day laborers loitering in front of 7-11 at Victoria and Placentia. Yeah, closing the job center did wonders, didn't it?

12/01/2007 07:45:00 AM  
Blogger The Pot Stirrer said...

Mike, if you noticed, a prolific local writer was in the Daily Pilot again this morning, signing in on the ordinance the City of Orange is contemplating to further "manage" their day laborer problem. I fully expect to see some "direction" from him to the council on this issue, probably some kind of more draconian ordinance that will facilitate rounding up every brown face they see on the streets.

When the Job Center was opened, and the current non-soliciation ordinance was created, nearly 20 years ago it was a response to the very situation you see now - eager workers loitering at various locations throughout the city. It solved the problem and became a model for other communities throughout the country. Once the so-called "improvers" worked their way into power they shut the Job Center down, so an attempt to further oppress the latinos in our city by a new non-solicitation ordinance won't surprise me at all. In fact, such a move might be this year's "December Surprise", as was the mayor's cross-designation plan two years ago. Don't turn you back on these guys or it will be your rights stomped into the turf next time.

12/01/2007 10:19:00 AM  
Anonymous CMTruth said...

quote: I thought Snowden was very suspect and an illegal alien friendly chief. He also was very chummy with Maria Avila who aspired to make CM a replica of Huntington Park.


are you retarded? it's obvious your racist & scared of anything NON white, your a disgrace to the city of costa mesa as well as mansoor, it must be sad life to live in fear.
mansoor works as a JAILER, entry level position in the sheriff;'s dept. ENTRY LEVEL!!!
not only that, its his dealings as a jailer that make him so fearful of hispanics he deals with criminals all day long & thinks every one w/ brown skin is a criminal also...
mr. fisler you sir are a sad bitter man, i feel for you & i realllly hope this posts gets through moderation...

so what if snowden is friends w/ avila & so what if he's not afraid of mexicans as you are.

12/27/2007 07:13:00 PM  
Anonymous CMTruth said...

PS
re: maria avila, does it really scare you that a hispanic woman has $ to open multiple buisness locations?!


or is it the fact you always run for council & LOSE, you will probably win this time as everyone currently sitting on council is a flat out racist & much like the bush administration runs on FEAR & propaganda...

Take a look at the east side of Costa Mesa from 22nd to Fair Newport blvd to elden it is a WHITE neighborhood that is over run w/ a METH problem yet your worried about day workers on the west side...
sad sad man...

12/27/2007 07:27:00 PM  

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